Hi All,
My 4 square is made of 4" Al irrigation pipe sleeved together. The antenna
has been up for over 10 years. The construction used 20ft sections of pipe
with about a 2ft piece of the pipe inside as a sleeve. Cut a slit througn
the sleeve and then used sheet metal screws. Over time these screws would
loosen, so this summer I sleeved the out side with another 2ft section and
used 4 SS hose clamps and that stiffened the joints. To keep the elements
up I have three sets of guy ropes spaced 90deg apart and 1" rerod for
anchors. I do have a gin pole in the center with pulleys on it to raise and
lower elements with my four wheeler. The guys spaced 90 deg apart allow me
to raise and lower elements by myself. As a hinge point for the elements, I
used a "U" shaped piece of AL with a 5/8" bolt going through the pipe and
"U" bracket, the "U" bracket is secured to a wooden pole base. My setup can
be viewed on QRZ under my call KE9L. Did not cost me that much ($1 a foot)
for the elements and guying, the antenna works really well.
As for failure of an element, I had one bend over because I did not have the
guying spaced correctly on one element when I used only 3 guys per section
spaced 120 deg apart. I would think the problem with using wood at the
joints is weather, wood soaking up water.
Skip KE9L
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
towertalk-request@contesting.com
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 4:41 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 157, Issue 105
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 80M 4 Square Array Material options (Patrick Greenlee)
2. Re: US Tower seized gearbox (K7LXC@aol.com)
3. Re: 80M 4 Square Array Material options (Matt)
4. Re: US Tower seized gearbox (Robert Harmon)
5. Re: 80M 4 Square Array Material options (Stan Stockton)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:48:54 -0600
From: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g@windstream.net>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M 4 Square Array Material options
Message-ID: <56ABD036.9060905@windstream.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
How about welding the lower non adjusting pieces?
Has anyone ever heard a credible story about a 4 square made of
irrigation pipe that failed? You could always insert a structure inside
the irrigation pipe to stiffen it. A design in wood should be
inexpensive. Some of the spray foams might be just the ticket.
Patrick NJ5G
On 1/29/2016 9:22 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> I know aluminum irrigation tubing has been used by many with success.
> Personally, I don't like it beacuse the wall thickness is so thin.
>
> This is just my suggestion:
>
> Buy two 24 foot lengths of 3.5 inch schedule 40 6061-T6 from your local
> metals supplier. Also buy two 24 foot lengths of 3 inch x .125 wall. Cut
> those 4 pieces into 12 foot lengths so you have four of each size. Use
3/8
> inch stainless steel SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREWS and the Optibeam style of
> element fastening (larger hole on one side to allow head to clear one wall
> of larger OD tubing) to join those together for each element with 3 bolts
> for each. With a 12 inch telescope you will have 23 feet ending with 3
> inch x .125 wall. Then for each element buy 6 foot lengths of every size
> DXE has of .120 wall tubing starting at 2.75 inch OD. You will need four
> of each size except the 1.5 inch OD where you would just have 3 feet of
> that size for each vertical - so you need two six foot lengths of the 1.5
> OD. Use the same fastening method and telescope everything through the
> 1.50 inch OD by six inches with two bolts for each joint. Then for the
> rest, starting with 1.25 inch telescope them by four inches and use bolt
> sizes shown below. The 1.25 through 1 inch is just regular .058 wall also
> available from DXE. The total length of this vertical will be about 70
> feet.
>
> So the taper schedule for what I described is:
>
> OD WALL EXPOSED Length Socket Head Cap Screw Size
>
> 3.5 .216 144
> 3.00 .125 132 3/8 x 4 inch
> 2.75 .120 66 3.8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.50 .120 66 3/8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.25 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 2.00 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 1.75 .120 66 3/8 x 2.5 inch
> 1.50 .120 32 1/4 x 2.5 inch
> 1.25 .058 68 #10 x 2 inch
> 1.125 .058 68 #8 x 1.75 inch
> 1.00 .058 68 #8 x 1.50 inch
>
> Although it would free stand with probably a 40 MPH wind, I would guy it
> one time, maybe from the top of the 2 inch section.
>
> I am just guessing the total cost will be well less than $1,500 for four
> verticals. You will have to use a drill press and a V block to drill a
> bunch of holes and engineer the method to walk it up and have it insulated
> from ground.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Daniel Hileman <n9wx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am looking for advice on material to use for an 80m 4 square. Looking
>> for the cheapest way to build an 80m vertical. I have looked at
>> towers,used utility poles etc. (Utility poles look like the best option
so
>> far.) Curious what you guys use. I know that it may not be cheap, but I
>> would like to do the verticals as cheaply as possible and looking for
your
>> input. I do not have 70' trees to hang a wire from (hihi) as I know this
>> would be SUPER cheap. ;-) Like I said, I do not expect it to be free, but
>> $1,800 for an 80m vertical from "Zero-five" antennas is crazy, and really
>> dont want to spend $3,000++ on a 4 square! Looking at options! lol. I
know
>> it's alot of aluminum,etc.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Dan N9WX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 16:15:39 -0500
From: K7LXC@aol.com
To: towertalk@contesting.com, rstealey@hotmail.com,
57jndenneny@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower seized gearbox
Message-ID: <6ff2cc.5c26c783.43dd307b@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>> The Hub City W300 gearbox on my US Tower 85 ft rotating mast appears
to have seized after 12 years.
> Are you sure you don't have a bad bearing in a pulley (sheave)?
The UST pulleys all use sealed bearings and they have been pretty
reliable in my experience. Also the pulleys are also mostly hidden so it's
not
easy to ascertain whether they're turning or not.
Cheers,
Steve K7LXC
TOWER TECH
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 15:37:23 -0600
From: "Matt" <maflukey@gmail.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M 4 Square Array Material options
Message-ID: <005401d15add$3e1c4f50$ba54edf0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There are lots of ways to do it. I happened to have a lot of 20' sticks of
.051" wall 3" dia irrigation pipe. My solution for connecting the
irrigation tubing together was to use 2.5" SCH 40 aluminum pipe stubs welded
onto 1/8" thick 6061 plates. The welds are made with a spool gun running
100% argon cover gas. The combination produces a joint with about .010"
radial clearance when the tubing is slipped over the pipe. The square
plates are drilled in the corners for guy rope attachments thereby avoiding
high bending stresses at the joint connections. Joints are drilled &
bolted after slipping the irrigation tubing over the stubs. Raising is
done ala N6RK style...
Matt
KM5VI
-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Patrick Greenlee
Sent: Friday, January 29, 2016 2:49 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M 4 Square Array Material options
How about welding the lower non adjusting pieces?
Has anyone ever heard a credible story about a 4 square made of irrigation
pipe that failed? You could always insert a structure inside the irrigation
pipe to stiffen it. A design in wood should be inexpensive. Some of the
spray foams might be just the ticket.
Patrick NJ5G
On 1/29/2016 9:22 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> I know aluminum irrigation tubing has been used by many with success.
> Personally, I don't like it beacuse the wall thickness is so thin.
>
> This is just my suggestion:
>
> Buy two 24 foot lengths of 3.5 inch schedule 40 6061-T6 from your
> local metals supplier. Also buy two 24 foot lengths of 3 inch x .125
> wall. Cut those 4 pieces into 12 foot lengths so you have four of
> each size. Use 3/8 inch stainless steel SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREWS and
> the Optibeam style of element fastening (larger hole on one side to
> allow head to clear one wall of larger OD tubing) to join those
> together for each element with 3 bolts for each. With a 12 inch
> telescope you will have 23 feet ending with 3 inch x .125 wall. Then
> for each element buy 6 foot lengths of every size DXE has of .120 wall
> tubing starting at 2.75 inch OD. You will need four of each size
> except the 1.5 inch OD where you would just have 3 feet of that size
> for each vertical - so you need two six foot lengths of the 1.5 OD.
> Use the same fastening method and telescope everything through the
> 1.50 inch OD by six inches with two bolts for each joint. Then for
> the rest, starting with 1.25 inch telescope them by four inches and
> use bolt sizes shown below. The 1.25 through 1 inch is just regular
> .058 wall also available from DXE. The total length of this vertical
> will be about 70 feet.
>
> So the taper schedule for what I described is:
>
> OD WALL EXPOSED Length Socket Head Cap Screw Size
>
> 3.5 .216 144
> 3.00 .125 132 3/8 x 4 inch
> 2.75 .120 66 3.8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.50 .120 66 3/8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.25 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 2.00 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 1.75 .120 66 3/8 x 2.5 inch
> 1.50 .120 32 1/4 x 2.5 inch
> 1.25 .058 68 #10 x 2 inch
> 1.125 .058 68 #8 x 1.75 inch
> 1.00 .058 68 #8 x 1.50 inch
>
> Although it would free stand with probably a 40 MPH wind, I would guy
> it one time, maybe from the top of the 2 inch section.
>
> I am just guessing the total cost will be well less than $1,500 for
> four verticals. You will have to use a drill press and a V block to
> drill a bunch of holes and engineer the method to walk it up and have
> it insulated from ground.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Daniel Hileman <n9wx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am looking for advice on material to use for an 80m 4 square.
>> Looking for the cheapest way to build an 80m vertical. I have looked
>> at towers,used utility poles etc. (Utility poles look like the best
>> option so
>> far.) Curious what you guys use. I know that it may not be cheap, but
>> I would like to do the verticals as cheaply as possible and looking
>> for your input. I do not have 70' trees to hang a wire from (hihi) as
>> I know this would be SUPER cheap. ;-) Like I said, I do not expect it
>> to be free, but
>> $1,800 for an 80m vertical from "Zero-five" antennas is crazy, and
>> really dont want to spend $3,000++ on a 4 square! Looking at options!
>> lol. I know it's alot of aluminum,etc.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Dan N9WX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 14:13:26 -0800
From: Robert Harmon <k6uj@pacbell.net>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower seized gearbox
Message-ID: <56ABE406.6090401@pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
The original lube in the Hub City gearbox is 90W petroleum based gear oil.
They recommend using Mobil Synthetic Gear Oil SHC630 when changing the lube.
It is also 90 W. The gearbox should be drained and flushed with a
recommended
flush oil before putting in the new synthetic oil. (Hub City's
instructions are below)
When I did this conversion the new synthetic lube had a dark brown
color, I called Hub City
and asked them about it and they said I needed to suck out the remaining
flush oil
in the bottom of the gearbox before putting in the new lube. The drain
plug on the
bottom doesn't drain it all out there is still about 1/2" of lube in the
bottom. I drained it
again and stole my wifes turkey baster with the squeeze bulb and sucked
out the remaining
lube. I put a short stub of plastic tubing on the end so it would reach
inside. It worked great.
(I bought her a new turkey baster hihi) After refilling again with the
new synthetic lube and ran
the gearbox for a little bit the color was almost clear, just a slight
amber tint. Hub City says
our usage is different than the typical usage for these worm drive red
gears. They said most
of the ones are used in continuous duty for conveyer belt drives etc.
Our non continuous
use should give us a long service life. We still need to change the
lube periodically. I am going to change mine every three years. I
neglected the gearbox for a long time, was focused on
greasing all the fittings on the tower.
73,
Bob
K6UJ
Here is Hub City's flushing procedure
http://www.winsmith.com/documents/Mobil_Glygoyle_General_Flushing_Procedure.
pdf
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2016 16:38:54 -0600
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: wa5rtg@gmail.com, Daniel Hileman <n9wx@hotmail.com>
Cc: TOWER TALK <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M 4 Square Array Material options
Message-ID: <10495B3C-8A18-443E-877A-5EADF809A21A@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I looked in Yagi Stress at what I had described. Should be good for about
58 MPH without guying. Not good enough, and as I said should be guyed.
However, if you change the taper schedule to this it should be good for 70
MPH. In some locations that might be good enough without any guy ropes. I
would guy it one time in my location to reduce the sway if nothing else.
This 70 foot vertical element weighs about 78 pounds with hardware. It
eliminates one of the 24 foot 3 inch X .125 wall tubes, using 6 feet on each
element and adds smaller diameter tubing sizes of shorter lengths at the
top.
> OD WALL EXPOSED Length Socket Head Cap Screw Size
>
> 3.5 .216 144
> 3.00 .125 60 3/8 x 4 inch
> 2.75 .120 66 3.8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.50 .120 66 3/8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.25 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 2.00 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 1.75 .120 66 3/8 x 2.5 inch
> 1.50 .120 32 1/4 x 2.5 inch
> 1.25 .058 18. #10 x 2 inch
> 1.125 .058 32 #8 x 1.75 inch
> 1.00 .058 32. #8 x 1.50 inch
.875. .058. 32 #8 X 1.50 inch
.750. .058. 32. #8 X 1.50 inch
.625. .058. 32. #6 X 1.00 inch
.500. .058. 32. #6 X .75 inch
.375. .058. Adjust #6 X .75 inch
24-68 inches
This is exactly what I would do if I didn't already have 25G towers for
verticals.
73... Stan, K5GO
> On Jan 29, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I know aluminum irrigation tubing has been used by many with success.
Personally, I don't like it beacuse the wall thickness is so thin.
>
> This is just my suggestion:
>
> Buy two 24 foot lengths of 3.5 inch schedule 40 6061-T6 from your local
metals supplier. Also buy two 24 foot lengths of 3 inch x .125 wall. Cut
those 4 pieces into 12 foot lengths so you have four of each size. Use 3/8
inch stainless steel SOCKET HEAD CAP SCREWS and the Optibeam style of
element fastening (larger hole on one side to allow head to clear one wall
of larger OD tubing) to join those together for each element with 3 bolts
for each. With a 12 inch telescope you will have 23 feet ending with 3 inch
x .125 wall. Then for each element buy 6 foot lengths of every size DXE has
of .120 wall tubing starting at 2.75 inch OD. You will need four of each
size except the 1.5 inch OD where you would just have 3 feet of that size
for each vertical - so you need two six foot lengths of the 1.5 OD. Use the
same fastening method and telescope everything through the 1.50 inch OD by
six inches with two bolts for each joint. Then for the rest, starting with
1.25 inch telesc
ope them by four inches and use bolt sizes shown below. The 1.25 through 1
inch is just regular .058 wall also available from DXE. The total length of
this vertical will be about 70 feet.
>
> So the taper schedule for what I described is:
>
> OD WALL EXPOSED Length Socket Head Cap Screw Size
>
> 3.5 .216 144
> 3.00 .125 132 3/8 x 4 inch
> 2.75 .120 66 3.8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.50 .120 66 3/8 x 3.5 inch
> 2.25 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 2.00 .120 66 3/8 x 3 inch
> 1.75 .120 66 3/8 x 2.5 inch
> 1.50 .120 32 1/4 x 2.5 inch
> 1.25 .058 68 #10 x 2 inch
> 1.125 .058 68 #8 x 1.75 inch
> 1.00 .058 68 #8 x 1.50 inch
>
> Although it would free stand with probably a 40 MPH wind, I would guy it
one time, maybe from the top of the 2 inch section.
>
> I am just guessing the total cost will be well less than $1,500 for four
verticals. You will have to use a drill press and a V block to drill a
bunch of holes and engineer the method to walk it up and have it insulated
from ground.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
>
>
>
>> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Daniel Hileman <n9wx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I am looking for advice on material to use for an 80m 4 square. Looking
for the cheapest way to build an 80m vertical. I have looked at towers,used
utility poles etc. (Utility poles look like the best option so far.) Curious
what you guys use. I know that it may not be cheap, but I would like to do
the verticals as cheaply as possible and looking for your input. I do not
have 70' trees to hang a wire from (hihi) as I know this would be SUPER
cheap. ;-) Like I said, I do not expect it to be free, but $1,800 for an 80m
vertical from "Zero-five" antennas is crazy, and really dont want to spend
$3,000++ on a 4 square! Looking at options! lol. I know it's alot of
aluminum,etc.
>>
>>
>> 73,
>> Dan N9WX
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
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------------------------------
End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 157, Issue 105
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