Re roving. I'd suggest that we look for digital modes that easily explicitly
suppose the "/R"'suffix or consider removing the requirement to use the "/R"
suffix.
Mark Spencer
Aligned Solutions Co.
mark@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099
> On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:52 PM, JamesDuffey <jamesduffey@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Let me preface these comments with the statement that these observations are
> meant to provoke some productive and objective discussion on the digital
> modes in VHF contesting and not aimed at criticizing any individuals. Please
> take it in that spirit.
>
> I find it odd that after years of wringing our hands over declining or steady
> participation in the VHF contests that some are now criticizing the increased
> activity that the digital modes, primarily FT8, are bringing to contesting. I
> realize that there is more to the sentiments some express than that, but to
> me, any increase in activity is good, particularly for the January contest
> when propagation is often flat.
>
> I think that there are three primary reasons that FT8 and MSK144 are popular:
>
> 1. FT8 offers many of the advantages that CW offers on VHF. To people who
> have entered the hobby over the past 25 years without knowing the code, this
> is a powerful attraction, and one not to be taken lightly.
>
> 2. Using both FT8 and MSK144, even a modestly equipped station on 6M can work
> other similarly equipped stations out to the limits of one hop Es. In some
> areas it is possible to work everyone within this radius that is on in a
> contest. This is not easily possible on either CW or SSB with a modestly
> equipped station.
>
> 3. A lot of ops run FT8 on HF and many of the skills translate directly to
> 6M. With the proliferation of HF+6M rigs, this provides a large pool of
> potential VHF Contesters. The contesting skills do not necessarily
> translate, but it is, in part, our responsibility to educate these potential
> new VHF ops on how to operate contests. Posts educating newbies on VHF
> contesting practices on local contesting, VHF, DX, club reflectors and
> newsletters should be made by those of us who are experienced Contesters.
>
> It does not do much good to complain that FT8 ops would do better on CW if
> they don’t know CW. But if conditions support it, they should go to SSB, and
> we should spread the word that when the indicated SNR on FT8 is over a
> certain threshold, say +6dB for SSB and maybe -14dB for CW, the band is
> probably open and they would do better on CW or SSB depending on the
> operator’s skill.
>
> A nice addition to FT8 would be an alert, perhaps flashing, included in the
> SNR report on FT8 suggestLet me preface these comments with the statement
> that these observations are meant to provoke some productive and objective
> discussion on the digital modes in VHF contesting and not aimed at
> criticizing any individuals. Please take it in that spirit.
>
> I find it odd that after years of wringing our hands over declining or steady
> participation in the VHF contests that some are now criticizing the increased
> activity that the digital modes, primarily FT8, are bringing to contesting. I
> realize that there is more to the sentiments some express than that, but to
> me, any increase in activity is good, particularly for the January contest
> when propagation is often flat.
>
> I think that there are three primary reasons that FT8 and MSK144 are popular:
>
> 1. FT8 offers many of the advantages that CW offers on VHF. To people who
> have entered the hobby over the past 25 years without knowing the code, this
> is a powerful attraction, and one not to be taken lightly.
>
> 2. Using both FT8 and MSK144, even a modestly equipped station on 6M can work
> other similarly equipped stations out to the limits of one hop Es. In some
> areas it is possible to work everyone within this radius that is on in a
> contest. This is not easily possible on either CW or SSB with a modestly
> equipped station.
>
> 3. A lot of ops run FT8 on HF and many of the skills translate directly to
> 6M. With the proliferation of HF+6M rigs, this provides a large pool of
> potential VHF Contesters. The contesting skills do not necessarily
> translate, but it is, in part, our responsibility to educate these potential
> new VHF ops on how to operate contests. Posts educating newbies on VHF
> contesting practices on local contesting, VHF, DX, club reflectors and
> newsletters should be made by those of us who are experienced Contesters.
>
> It does not do much good to complain that FT8 ops would do better on CW if
> they don’t know CW. But if conditions support it, they should go to SSB, and
> we should spread the word that when the indicated SNR on FT8 is over a
> certain threshold, say +6dB for SSB and maybe -14dB for CW, the band is
> probably open and they would do better on CW or SSB depending on the
> operator’s skill.
>
> A nice addition to FT8 would be an alert, perhaps flashing, included in the
> SNR report on FT8 suggesting that CW or SSB might be a better choice for a
> QSO and the band may be open.
>
> I don’t think that there is really a viable analog, that is CW or SSB
> alternative, for meteor scatter QSOes in a contest, at least not for one that
> is as quick.
>
> I understand that it is hard to work scatter out to the limits with CW or
> SSB. It takes skill and patience. With FT8, these QSOes are much easier and
> the skill required is less, and hence there are more operators that can
> utilize these modes. I think that this is good. Again, some education for
> these ops on what propagation modes they are working on and how best to
> utilize the various modes would help.
>
> As several have stated, the problem with the digital modes is that they may
> take activity away from the conventional modes. I am not sure how best to
> deal with this, but getting people to use more of the assistance resources
> available is a start. That will alert the FT8 op that there is a QSO that can
> be made on SSB or CW that is not available on FT8. They can go to the analog
> modes after their FT8 QSO is complete, say in a minute or so. After doing
> this a few times, hopefully it will become second nature. The conflict
> between MSK144 and other modes is not as easily resolved as the time
> commitment for meteor scatter is longer. I have heard ops explain that they
> work FT8 because that is where the activity is and there is nothing to work
> on CW or SSB, and at the same time rovers in those same areas will complain
> that there is no one to work on CW or SSB because all of the ops they usually
> work are on FT8. Emphasizing FT8 over CW or SSB because of lack of analog
> activity is a self fulfilling prophecy.
>
> So, I think that to begin with, we should launch an education campaign to
> those new FT8 contest ops as to how best to maximize their scores by using
> modes other than FT8.
>
> Adding alerts to the FT8 software to prompt an op to go to CW or SSB when the
> SNR is good would help.
>
> Encouraging the FT8 ops to monitor the various forms of assistance so that
> they can be alerted when CW and SSB ops are available for QSOes would help as
> well. If FT8 ops keep an APRS window and local VHF chat room/activity window
> open, and pay attention to it, that would help alert the FT8 op that there
> are other, perhaps more fruitful and faster sources of QSOes and points.
>
> One issue that has not been expanded on much is the impact on rovers. FT8 and
> MSK144 are additional activities layered on an already busy rover activity.
> Rovers usually work the easy pickings first when they make a stop. I, and I
> suspect most rovers, also try to work as many others that are on the air. If
> the rover goes to MSK144 or FT8 to work stations, that takes additional time,
> but it may make it worthwhile to get the extra mults and QSO points. Stations
> that are busy with scatter QSOes will put off working the rover. The end
> result will be that the rover will miss out on working stations he would
> normally work, or have to spend more time at a given stop, or perhaps operate
> on two radios simultaneously, probably with another operator and certainly
> with more hardware complexity. The simple three band single op rover may
> become a thing of the past and everyone will suffer for it.
>
> I think the digital modes offer great contesting opportunities for the entry
> level operator and modestly equipped stations. We need to figure out how best
> to utilize them to derive the best benefit though. Education is a good place
> to start.
>
> Rational opposing views and thoughts on the subject?- Duffey KK6MC
>
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
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