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Re: [VHFcontesting] Thoughts on the Digital Modes and VHF Contesting

To: JamesDuffey <jamesduffey@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Thoughts on the Digital Modes and VHF Contesting
From: Mark Spencer <mark@alignedsolutions.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:23:10 -0800
List-post: <mailto:vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
Re roving.   I'd suggest that we look for digital modes that easily explicitly 
suppose the "/R"'suffix or consider removing the requirement to use the "/R" 
suffix.

Mark Spencer

Aligned Solutions Co.
mark@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 12:52 PM, JamesDuffey <jamesduffey@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Let me preface these comments with the statement that these observations are 
> meant to provoke some productive and objective discussion on the digital 
> modes in VHF contesting and not aimed at criticizing any individuals. Please 
> take it in that spirit.
> 
> I find it odd that after years of wringing our hands over declining or steady 
> participation in the VHF contests that some are now criticizing the increased 
> activity that the digital modes, primarily FT8, are bringing to contesting. I 
> realize that there is more to the sentiments some express than that, but to 
> me, any increase in activity is good, particularly for the January contest 
> when propagation is often flat. 
> 
> I think that there are three primary reasons that FT8 and MSK144 are popular:
> 
> 1. FT8 offers many of the advantages that CW offers on VHF. To people who 
> have entered the hobby over the past 25 years without knowing the code, this 
> is a powerful attraction, and one not to be taken lightly.
> 
> 2. Using both FT8 and MSK144, even a modestly equipped station on 6M can work 
> other similarly equipped stations out to the limits of one hop Es. In some 
> areas it is possible to work everyone within this radius that is on in a 
> contest.  This is not easily possible on either CW or SSB with a modestly 
> equipped station. 
> 
> 3. A lot of ops run FT8 on HF and many of the skills translate directly to 
> 6M. With the proliferation of HF+6M rigs, this provides a large pool of 
> potential VHF Contesters.  The  contesting skills do not necessarily 
> translate, but it is, in part, our responsibility to educate these potential 
> new VHF ops on how to operate contests. Posts educating newbies on VHF 
> contesting practices on local contesting, VHF, DX, club reflectors and 
> newsletters should be made by those of us who are experienced Contesters. 
> 
> It does not do much good to complain that FT8 ops would do better on CW if 
> they don’t know CW. But if conditions support it, they should go to SSB, and 
> we should spread the word that when the indicated SNR on FT8 is over a 
> certain threshold, say +6dB for SSB and maybe -14dB for CW, the band is 
> probably open and they would do better on CW or SSB depending on the 
> operator’s skill.
> 
> A nice addition to FT8 would be an alert, perhaps flashing, included in the 
> SNR report on FT8 suggestLet me preface these comments with the statement 
> that these observations are meant to provoke some productive and objective 
> discussion on the digital modes in VHF contesting and not aimed at 
> criticizing any individuals. Please take it in that spirit.
> 
> I find it odd that after years of wringing our hands over declining or steady 
> participation in the VHF contests that some are now criticizing the increased 
> activity that the digital modes, primarily FT8, are bringing to contesting. I 
> realize that there is more to the sentiments some express than that, but to 
> me, any increase in activity is good, particularly for the January contest 
> when propagation is often flat. 
> 
> I think that there are three primary reasons that FT8 and MSK144 are popular:
> 
> 1. FT8 offers many of the advantages that CW offers on VHF. To people who 
> have entered the hobby over the past 25 years without knowing the code, this 
> is a powerful attraction, and one not to be taken lightly.
> 
> 2. Using both FT8 and MSK144, even a modestly equipped station on 6M can work 
> other similarly equipped stations out to the limits of one hop Es. In some 
> areas it is possible to work everyone within this radius that is on in a 
> contest.  This is not easily possible on either CW or SSB with a modestly 
> equipped station. 
> 
> 3. A lot of ops run FT8 on HF and many of the skills translate directly to 
> 6M. With the proliferation of HF+6M rigs, this provides a large pool of 
> potential VHF Contesters.  The  contesting skills do not necessarily 
> translate, but it is, in part, our responsibility to educate these potential 
> new VHF ops on how to operate contests. Posts educating newbies on VHF 
> contesting practices on local contesting, VHF, DX, club reflectors and 
> newsletters should be made by those of us who are experienced Contesters. 
> 
> It does not do much good to complain that FT8 ops would do better on CW if 
> they don’t know CW. But if conditions support it, they should go to SSB, and 
> we should spread the word that when the indicated SNR on FT8 is over a 
> certain threshold, say +6dB for SSB and maybe -14dB for CW, the band is 
> probably open and they would do better on CW or SSB depending on the 
> operator’s skill.
> 
> A nice addition to FT8 would be an alert, perhaps flashing, included in the 
> SNR report on FT8 suggesting that CW or SSB might be a better choice for a 
> QSO and the band may be open. 
> 
> I don’t think that there is really a viable analog, that is CW or SSB 
> alternative, for meteor scatter QSOes in a contest, at least not for one that 
> is as quick. 
> 
> I understand that it is hard to work scatter out to the limits with CW or 
> SSB. It takes skill and patience. With FT8, these QSOes are much easier and 
> the skill required is less, and hence there are more operators that can 
> utilize these modes. I think that this is good. Again, some education for 
> these ops on what propagation modes they are working on and how best to 
> utilize the various modes would help.  
> 
> As several have stated, the problem with the digital modes is that they may 
> take activity away from the conventional modes. I am not sure how best to 
> deal with this, but getting people to use more of the assistance resources 
> available is a start. That will alert the FT8 op that there is a QSO that can 
> be made on SSB or CW that is not available on FT8. They can go to the analog 
> modes after their FT8 QSO is complete, say in a minute or so. After doing 
> this a few times, hopefully it will become second nature. The conflict 
> between MSK144 and other modes is not as easily resolved as the time 
> commitment for meteor scatter is longer. I have heard ops explain that they 
> work FT8 because that is where the activity is and there is nothing to work 
> on CW or SSB, and at the same time rovers in those same areas will complain 
> that there is no one to work on CW or SSB because all of the ops they usually 
> work are on FT8. Emphasizing FT8 over CW or SSB because of lack of analog 
> activity is a self fulfilling prophecy. 
> 
> So, I think that to begin with, we should launch an education campaign to 
> those new FT8 contest ops as to how best to maximize their scores by using 
> modes other than FT8. 
> 
> Adding alerts to the FT8 software to prompt an op to go to CW or SSB when the 
> SNR is good would help. 
> 
> Encouraging the FT8 ops to monitor the various forms of assistance so that 
> they can be alerted when CW and SSB ops are available for QSOes would help as 
> well. If FT8 ops keep an APRS window and local VHF chat room/activity window 
> open, and pay attention to it, that would help alert the FT8 op that there 
> are other, perhaps more fruitful and faster sources of QSOes and points. 
> 
> One issue that has not been expanded on much is the impact on rovers. FT8 and 
> MSK144 are additional activities layered on an already busy rover activity. 
> Rovers usually work the easy pickings first when they make a stop. I, and I 
> suspect most rovers, also try to work as many others that are on the air. If 
> the rover goes to MSK144 or FT8 to work stations, that takes additional time, 
> but it may make it worthwhile to get the extra mults and QSO points. Stations 
> that are busy with scatter QSOes will put off working the rover. The end 
> result will be that the rover will miss out on working stations he would 
> normally work, or have to spend more time at a given stop, or perhaps operate 
> on two radios simultaneously, probably with another operator and certainly 
> with more hardware complexity. The  simple three band single op rover may 
> become a thing of the past and everyone will suffer for it. 
> 
> I think the digital modes offer great contesting opportunities for the entry 
> level operator and modestly equipped stations. We need to figure out how best 
> to utilize them to derive the best benefit though. Education is a good place 
> to start. 
> 
> Rational opposing views and thoughts on the subject?- Duffey KK6MC
> 
> James Duffey KK6MC
> Cedar Crest NM
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