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Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question

To: "'Gary Schafer'" <garyschafer@largeriver.net>, <w5cul@sbcglobal.net>, <Amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
From: "Gary Schafer" <garyschafer@largeriver.net>
Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 22:57:46 -0500
List-post: <mailto:amps@contesting.com>
To clarify, the way you describe having the amp wired you have a loop with
neutral tied to ground at the amp via the coax cables to the other equipment
that is connected properly to ground. 

73
Gary  K4FMX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> Gary Schafer
> Sent: Monday, May 03, 2021 10:47 PM
> To: w5cul@sbcglobal.net; Amps@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
> 
> I think that I see your problem. The ground wire should never 
> carry ANY current. It is not a substitute for neutral.
> With the old wiring system for dryers of 2 hot and neutral (3 
> wires total) it had to be a dedicated circuit with no other 
> connections to that line.
> 
> You need the amp chassis connected to the GROUND lead only. 
> All other outlets on your secondary box must have their 
> grounds connected to the ground lead also. The neutral leads 
> from the other outlets should go only to the neutral wire 
> back to the main panel.
> 
> The GROUND and NEUTRAL should be bonded together ONLY in the 
> main panel, nowhere else!
> 
> The amp should be wired only to L1, L2 and GROUND wire. 
> 
> 73
> Gary  K4FMX
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
> > w5cul@sbcglobal.net
> > Sent: Monday, May 03, 2021 9:29 PM
> > To: Amps@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > Just a slight correction on the Cable from the Main 
> Electrical Panel 
> > into the Bedroom.  It is a 6/3, 6AWG with L1, L2, N & a Ground wire.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > Mike
> > W5CUL
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amps <amps-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of 
> > w5cul@sbcglobal.net
> > Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 8:26 PM
> > To: Amps@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
> > 
> > All,
> > 
> > First Thank You to all who replied!!!  I received a lot of 
> replies off 
> > list, too many to answer individually.  So I will attempt to answer 
> > all the questions in this one response as best as I can.  It does 
> > appear that I need to add a little more detail surrounding 
> my setup as 
> > a lot of the questions were centered around that, and then 
> some about 
> > how the Amp was wired itself...etc.  So here goes.
> > 
> > It is a 3/6 cable with a ground wire that runs from the Main 
> > Electrical House Panel to a 4 Pole 50amp Dryer Receptacle in the 
> > bedroom.  From there the sub-panel is plugged into the dryer 
> > receptable using a 4 Pole Dryer Plug
> > (L1,L2,N,G) .  2ea 120Vac and 2ea 220Vac Circuits come out of the 
> > sub-panel, each with their own CB.  One set of 120Vac 
> receptacles are 
> > wired into L1, Neutral and Ground.  The other is wired into L2, 
> > Neutral and Ground.  The 3 Pole 220Vac Receptacles are 
> wired to L1, L2 
> > and Neutral, more on that later.
> > One gentleman asked me why 2 independent 120Vac Circuits, 
> why not use 
> > just one 15amp Circuit for all the 120Vac needs?  I split 
> out 2ea so 
> > that I could balance the load across L1 and L2.
> > 
> > Another Gentleman discussed a 4 Pole Dryer Receptacle 
> versus the older 
> > 3 Pole Receptacle, and that was much appreciated as it jogged my 
> > memory of how I had this setup at my father's house when I 
> was having 
> > to take care of him in Mississippi.
> > I did not run a dedicated 220Vac to the bedroom where I had a 
> > temporary station setup, yet just borowed from his Dryer Receptacle 
> > that was in the laundry room across the hallway when the 
> dryer was not 
> > in use, which was not too often.  And his Dryer Receptable was the 
> > older 3 Pole type, L1, L2 and N.
> >  And that answers why I wired the 220Vac Receptacle off the 
> Sub-Panel 
> > that was feeding the Alpha at that time the way I did.
> > 
> > The 220Vac line coming out of the Alpha is wired into a 3 
> prong plug, 
> > L1, L2 and a "Green Wire".  After re-reading the 87A manual this 
> > morning, it does say that the Green Wire can either be wired to 
> > Neutral or Ground, stated in that order.
> > So, when I wired up the 220Vac Receptable all those years 
> ago for use 
> > in my Dad's house, I wired the 3rd prong to Neutral such that the 
> > Alpha's Green Wire will be connected to such.
> > The manual indicates it can be wired either way, to N or G.  
> > While under use at my fathers house, there was no low level 
> 60Hz hum 
> > in the speakers, but then it was not a true 4 pole service 
> like it is 
> > here now.
> > 
> > After coming back from Mississippi permanently, I just recently 
> > started getting this station back together.  Keeping in 
> mind that the 
> > Dryer Plug for the Sub-Panel was setup for 3 Pole and that 
> it can plug 
> > into a 4 Pole Receptacle, I did use that arrangement to temporarily 
> > get power to test out the Alpha after the big move.  During that 
> > recent testing, prior to having a dedicated 4 pole 220Vac Line 
> > installed into this bedroom, I did not experience any low 
> level 60Hz 
> > hum with the Alpha plugged into the Sub-Panel.
> > Keep in mind that all of the 120Vac equipment was being 
> powered by the 
> > "Bedroom" Circuit at that time, not this new 4 Pole 220Vac 
> Circuit.  
> > So this is prompting me to rewire the 220Vac Plug and taking the 
> > Alpha's "Green Wire" to Ground as opposed to the Neutral 
> and see what 
> > happens.
> > 
> > And lastly, a Gentleman asked me about Station Grounding, 
> is all the 
> > equipment bonded together and is there a Station Ground.  
> There is no 
> > Station Ground at this time, it is floating, or using the 
> Ground that 
> > comes in from the 4 Pole 220Vac Circuit.  I plan on installing such 
> > this weekend.
> > Not just a "Ground", but an RF Ground that extends from 
> ground rod to 
> > ground rod that are appropriately spaced from each other 
> and that are 
> > bonded by copper shielding.  As for the bonding of the equipment to 
> > each other, that is actually being accomplished by the Coax cabling 
> > that interconnects the equipment.  The SO239 connecters are 
> bonded to 
> > the equipment chassis, so when you connect up a Coax from 
> one piece of 
> > equipment to another, you are affectively bonding those chassis 
> > together using the ground shielding of the Coax.
> > 
> > So I think my first step is to re-wire the 220Vac 
> Receptacle that is 
> > feeding the Alpha and see if that helps.  If that does not 
> eliminate 
> > the hum, the next is to replace the Caps in the Transformer Line in 
> > the Alpha, one may be leaky as one Gentleman said.
> > 
> > Again, Thank You all for your replies, advice and guidance.  
> > I certainly have some more ideas now and a path to move 
> forward with.
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > 
> > Mike
> > W5CUL
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Amps <amps-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of 
> > w5cul@sbcglobal.net
> > Sent: Monday, May 3, 2021 12:26 PM
> > To: Amps@contesting.com
> > Subject: [Amps] Alpha 87A Power Supply Question
> > 
> > Good Afternoon Gentlemen,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > I have a rather quirky situation and a question about it.  
> I have been 
> > chasing down a low level 60Hz hum I get across my speakers 
> when I plug 
> > my Alpha 87A into a shared A/C Service for the shack.  I say shared 
> > because I am referring to a dedicated 6AWG 220Vac line that 
> runs from 
> > the Main Electrical Panel for the house to the shack 
> (bedroom).  From 
> > there it is connected to a Sub-Panel that splits out 2ea 
> 220Vac Lines 
> > and 2ea 120Vac Lines all with appropriate CBs.  All the 120Vac 
> > equipment to include Transceivers, computers, speakers etc...are 
> > powered by the two 120Vac lines.
> > The Alpha is powered by one of the 220Vac Lines.  So as the issue 
> > goes, with all the 120Vac plugged in and powered up, transceiver 
> > turned on, white noise emanating from the speakers, the 
> moment I plug 
> > the Alpha 87A into one of the 220Vac sockets, CB turned off, I 
> > immediately get a low level 60Hz hum coming out of the speakers.  
> > Since this sounds like a neutral or ground feedback loop, 
> it prompted 
> > me to check the wiring on the Alpha.  So I unplug the Alpha and 
> > perform a continuity check from Leg 1 of the plug to the chassis of 
> > the Alpha, Leg 2 to the Chassis and Neutral to the Chassis.  As for 
> > the 120Vac Legs, there is no continuity to the Alpha Chassis.  But 
> > there is direct continuity from the Neutral of the 220Vac 
> Alpha plug 
> > to the Chassis of the Alpha.  So the question I have is should the 
> > Neutral on the Alpha plug have such continuity to Chassis 
> Ground, or 
> > do I have a bad Capacitor somewhere in the Alpha?  I will 
> say that the 
> > Alpha 87A does operate as it should and does put out full power.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thank you in advance,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Mike
> > 
> > W5CUL
> > 
> > 
> > 
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