Antennaware
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Antennaware] Antennaware Digest, Vol 131, Issue 1

To: "antennaware@contesting.com" <antennaware@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Antennaware] Antennaware Digest, Vol 131, Issue 1
From: "F. Grant Saviers" <grants2@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 22:28:42 +0000 (UTC)
List-post: <mailto:antennaware@contesting.com>
 AutoEZ by AC6LA ($ very reasonable) is a great add on to EZNEC.  There is a 
feature called "triple", it generates three plots which show the Z parameters, 
swr and gain over a range of frequencies and step size and feedline Z you 
choose.  There is a lot more in AutoEZ re optimizing antennas, but that doesn't 
need to be learned to get "triple" plots.  

Grant KZ1W

    On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 03:12:30 PM PDT, 
antennaware-request@contesting.com <antennaware-request@contesting.com> wrote:  
 
 Send Antennaware mailing list submissions to
    antennaware@contesting.com

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    antennaware-request@contesting.com

You can reach the person managing the list at
    antennaware-owner@contesting.com

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Antennaware digest..."


Today's Topics:

  1. EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun (David Gould)
  2. Re: EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun (Joe Subich, W4TV)
  3. Re: EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun (David Gould)
  4. Re: EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun (Jay Terleski)
  5. Re: EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun (David Gould)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 17:36:49 +0000
From: David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk>
To: antennaware@contesting.com
Subject: [Antennaware] EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun
Message-ID: <87913b2a-a758-478a-b768-a00c19aa8fbf@g3ueg.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

I am using Pro/2 v 7.0.

I have been through the EZNEC help and the test drive around the track, 
but the examples are all more complex than I am looking for so I am 
having trouble getting to the basics.

I would like to model a variation of a centre fed dipole (over a wide 
frequency range) that has a 4:1 balun at its feed point.?? Is there an 
example anywhere I could use to copy from?

Currently I am just using a straight wire with the source at 50% along.? 
Can I develop from this or do I have to split it into two separate wires?

I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm 
feedline coax.

Any help would be appreciated.

73,

Dave? G3UEG




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 14:23:42 -0400
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
To: antennaware@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Antennaware] EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun
Message-ID: <e4dcdba1-53ea-4246-9219-d11aa8e43681@subich.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed


 > I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
 > feedline coax.

Why not just use Alternate SWR Zo = 200 Ohms?  That will give you the
50 Ohm SWR after the 4:1 "balun" assuming the balun is a broadband
current balun.

Otherwise, you can use a second short wire, move your source to it,
and place a *1:4 transformer* between that wire and the location of
your original source.

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV

On 3/25/2024 1:36 PM, David Gould wrote:
> I am using Pro/2 v 7.0.
> 
> I have been through the EZNEC help and the test drive around the track, 
> but the examples are all more complex than I am looking for so I am 
> having trouble getting to the basics.
> 
> I would like to model a variation of a centre fed dipole (over a wide 
> frequency range) that has a 4:1 balun at its feed point.?? Is there an 
> example anywhere I could use to copy from?
> 
> Currently I am just using a straight wire with the source at 50% along. 
> Can I develop from this or do I have to split it into two separate wires?
> 
> I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm 
> feedline coax.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Dave? G3UEG
> 





------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 18:49:38 +0000
From: David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk>
To: antennaware@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Antennaware] EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun
Message-ID: <9684ef12-816c-4e6a-aac5-0cc861959459@g3ueg.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Thanks to Jay and Joe for the Alternate Zo suggestion.? It certainly 
gives the revised SWR curve I was expecting.

I would also like to know the new impedance after the transformation, 
which the SWR graph does not provide the data at the bottom is always 
for the 50ohm plot and not the 200ohm plot.

Is there a way to get this additional information?? If not I will 
investigate the second of Joe's suggestions.

73,

Dave G3UEG



On 25/03/2024 18:23, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> > I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
> > feedline coax.
>
> Why not just use Alternate SWR Zo = 200 Ohms?? That will give you the
> 50 Ohm SWR after the 4:1 "balun" assuming the balun is a broadband
> current balun.
>
> Otherwise, you can use a second short wire, move your source to it,
> and place a *1:4 transformer* between that wire and the location of
> your original source.
>
> 73,
>
> ?? ... Joe, W4TV
>
> On 3/25/2024 1:36 PM, David Gould wrote:
>> I am using Pro/2 v 7.0.
>>
>> I have been through the EZNEC help and the test drive around the 
>> track, but the examples are all more complex than I am looking for so 
>> I am having trouble getting to the basics.
>>
>> I would like to model a variation of a centre fed dipole (over a wide 
>> frequency range) that has a 4:1 balun at its feed point. Is there an 
>> example anywhere I could use to copy from?
>>
>> Currently I am just using a straight wire with the source at 50% 
>> along. Can I develop from this or do I have to split it into two 
>> separate wires?
>>
>> I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm 
>> feedline coax.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Dave? G3UEG
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Antennaware mailing list
> Antennaware@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 15:12:02 -0500
From: Jay Terleski <jayt@arraysolutions.com>
To: David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk>
Cc: antennaware@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Antennaware] EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun
Message-ID:
    <CABzJGbqbqnbL-9fpX_9TqrUDrgqiznHnsO_wEhNeF3P3pxFSCg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Yes, If you use the SWR plot given by EZNEC you can place your curser on
the frequency you're interested in and it will give you the impedance
calculated at that frequency.  The source impedance is at the source not at
the end of the feedline so be careful.  A transmission line will act as a
transformer unless the source is the same Zo of the transmission line or if
you are not the 1/2 WL multiple.    I think you are overthinking your
problem David.  But if you really wanted to get into the details you
could create a model that had the coax cable feeding your balun included in
the model and place your source at the radio end of your coax model.


Jay Terleski
Array Solutions
214 954 7140



On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 1:49?PM David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks to Jay and Joe for the Alternate Zo suggestion.  It certainly
> gives the revised SWR curve I was expecting.
>
> I would also like to know the new impedance after the transformation,
> which the SWR graph does not provide the data at the bottom is always
> for the 50ohm plot and not the 200ohm plot.
>
> Is there a way to get this additional information?  If not I will
> investigate the second of Joe's suggestions.
>
> 73,
>
> Dave G3UEG
>
>
>
> On 25/03/2024 18:23, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >
> > > I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
> > > feedline coax.
> >
> > Why not just use Alternate SWR Zo = 200 Ohms?  That will give you the
> > 50 Ohm SWR after the 4:1 "balun" assuming the balun is a broadband
> > current balun.
> >
> > Otherwise, you can use a second short wire, move your source to it,
> > and place a *1:4 transformer* between that wire and the location of
> > your original source.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >
> > On 3/25/2024 1:36 PM, David Gould wrote:
> >> I am using Pro/2 v 7.0.
> >>
> >> I have been through the EZNEC help and the test drive around the
> >> track, but the examples are all more complex than I am looking for so
> >> I am having trouble getting to the basics.
> >>
> >> I would like to model a variation of a centre fed dipole (over a wide
> >> frequency range) that has a 4:1 balun at its feed point. Is there an
> >> example anywhere I could use to copy from?
> >>
> >> Currently I am just using a straight wire with the source at 50%
> >> along. Can I develop from this or do I have to split it into two
> >> separate wires?
> >>
> >> I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
> >> feedline coax.
> >>
> >> Any help would be appreciated.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Dave  G3UEG
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Antennaware mailing list
> > Antennaware@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
>
> _______________________________________________
> Antennaware mailing list
> Antennaware@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 22:12:01 +0000
From: David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk>
To: antennaware@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Antennaware] EZNEC how to model a 4:1 balun
Message-ID: <d04bff89-de29-4964-ab1e-27e6ce4bdc2a@g3ueg.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Jay,

Thanks again for the elaboration.? I have now got the impedances from 
the SWR plot.? I was just changing the Zo from 50 to 200 and the data 
was not changing, but clicking on the plot again results in the data 
being changed to 200 ohms.

I have now got what I want so many thanks for your help.? What I am 
trying to do is a bit weird but I have my reasons!

73,

Dave? G3UEG



On 25/03/2024 20:12, Jay Terleski wrote:
> Yes, If you use the SWR plot given by EZNEC you can place your curser on
> the frequency you're interested in and it will give you the impedance
> calculated at that frequency.  The source impedance is at the source not at
> the end of the feedline so be careful.  A transmission line will act as a
> transformer unless the source is the same Zo of the transmission line or if
> you are not the 1/2 WL multiple.    I think you are overthinking your
> problem David.  But if you really wanted to get into the details you
> could create a model that had the coax cable feeding your balun included in
> the model and place your source at the radio end of your coax model.
>
>
> Jay Terleski
> Array Solutions
> 214 954 7140
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 25, 2024 at 1:49?PM David Gould <dave@g3ueg.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Thanks to Jay and Joe for the Alternate Zo suggestion.  It certainly
>> gives the revised SWR curve I was expecting.
>>
>> I would also like to know the new impedance after the transformation,
>> which the SWR graph does not provide the data at the bottom is always
>> for the 50ohm plot and not the 200ohm plot.
>>
>> Is there a way to get this additional information?  If not I will
>> investigate the second of Joe's suggestions.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Dave G3UEG
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25/03/2024 18:23, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>> I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
>>>> feedline coax.
>>> Why not just use Alternate SWR Zo = 200 Ohms?  That will give you the
>>> 50 Ohm SWR after the 4:1 "balun" assuming the balun is a broadband
>>> current balun.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, you can use a second short wire, move your source to it,
>>> and place a *1:4 transformer* between that wire and the location of
>>> your original source.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>>    ... Joe, W4TV
>>>
>>> On 3/25/2024 1:36 PM, David Gould wrote:
>>>> I am using Pro/2 v 7.0.
>>>>
>>>> I have been through the EZNEC help and the test drive around the
>>>> track, but the examples are all more complex than I am looking for so
>>>> I am having trouble getting to the basics.
>>>>
>>>> I would like to model a variation of a centre fed dipole (over a wide
>>>> frequency range) that has a 4:1 balun at its feed point. Is there an
>>>> example anywhere I could use to copy from?
>>>>
>>>> Currently I am just using a straight wire with the source at 50%
>>>> along. Can I develop from this or do I have to split it into two
>>>> separate wires?
>>>>
>>>> I am mainly interested in the impedance transformation to the 50 ohm
>>>> feedline coax.
>>>>
>>>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>> Dave  G3UEG
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Antennaware mailing list
>>> Antennaware@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
>> _______________________________________________
>> Antennaware mailing list
>> Antennaware@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Antennaware mailing list
> Antennaware@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware



------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Antennaware mailing list
Antennaware@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware


------------------------------

End of Antennaware Digest, Vol 131, Issue 1
*******************************************
  
_______________________________________________
Antennaware mailing list
Antennaware@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/antennaware
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>
  • Re: [Antennaware] Antennaware Digest, Vol 131, Issue 1, F. Grant Saviers <=