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Re: [Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 84, Issue 63

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 84, Issue 63
From: k3vw@aol.com
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 08:13:23 EST
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
To all, ref. the GS-35B's efficiency: It is a medium MU triode, not a high  
MU triode that folks are trying to compare to ! Willy K3VW
 
 
In a message dated 12/19/2009 9:21:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
amps-request@contesting.com writes:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re:  [rfamplifiers] Question about GS-35b efficiency (kd4e)
2.  Topics about Class A amplifier (Hsu)
3. Re: Alternative  cooling strategies for SB-220? (Mike using AT&T)
4. Re:  water cooling (Ron Youvan)
5. Re: Alternative cooling  strategies for SB-220? (Dave White)
6. Dentron Needs Plate  Choke (Wayne King)
7. Site translator (MIKE  DURKIN)
8. Re: QSK switching time...etc. (Roy)
9. Re: Alternative cooling strategies for SB-220?  (texasrf@aol.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message:  1
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:24:01 -0500
From: kd4e  <doc@kd4e.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] [rfamplifiers] Question about  GS-35b efficiency
To: rfamplifiers@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Amps reflector  <amps@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <4B2B03E1.6070707@kd4e.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

When I incorrectly imagined myself  capable of building an 
amp like this I discovered this  site:
http://gs35b.com/gs35bvs8877.html

It contains an excellent  charted and textually-described 
explanation of the specs and practical  applications of the 
two - as well as a compare and contrast of the  tubes.

Although the 8877 has higher "mu" it has a lower tolerance  
for error.

I seem to also recall that tuned-circuit components that  
work well with an 8877 may not function as efficiently with 
s GS-35b  due to different inductance and capacitance factors.

Of course I am the  least-informed and experienced here ... 
so please consider the link  without my commentary and see 
what the gathered wisdom here has to offer  from their 
hands-on experience!

73, doc KD4E

And, in case I  forget, a blessed CHRIST-mas to all!

> I have a question about the  plate efficiency of a GS-35b amplifier.
> 
> I have built two of  them for 160-10 meters, and while they worked ok, the
> efficiency was  not as good as I expected. In both cases I ran them at 3 
> kVDC  and
> in order to get a full 1500 watts out, had to drive them to 1000  mA plate
> current. That equates to about 50% efficiency, which seemed a  bit low.
> 
> In both cases, I removed the GS-35b and replaced it  with an 8877. With 
> no other
> changes except bias diode and  heater transformer, I was able to get 1500 
> watts
> out with  only 830 mA plate current, an efficiency of 60%. I swapped two
>  different GS-35b's with the same result. Both were brand new tubes. 
>  Results were
> essentially the same on all bands, with a slight drop off  on 15 and 10 
> meters
> with all three tubes.
> 
>  With all of the different tubes, I set the bias for a ZSAC of about 200  
mA.
> 
> I have spoken to two European hams and one US ham and  they have reported 
> similar
> results.I wonder if the GS-35b  might achieve higher efficiency at higher 
> plate
>  voltages?
> 
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has made  similar measurements.
> 
> 73, Bill W6WRT
> 
>  __._,_.___
> Reply to sender  <mailto:dezrat1242@yahoo.com?subject=Question about 
> GS-35b  efficiency > | Reply to group 
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-- 

Thanks! & 73, doc,  KD4E
FS/Swap/Wanted: http://kd4e.com/swapn.html
Free OS :  http://www.PuppyLinux.com
Personal: http://kd4e.com
|_|___|_|
| | & | |
/\     {|
/  \      {|
/    \    {|
/   @  \   {|
|   |~_|~~~~|
|   -| |     |
============\ # KD4E
Have an http://ultrafidian.com  day!


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun,  20 Dec 2009 08:58:11 +0800
From: "Hsu"  <hsu4qro@gmail.com>
Subject: [Amps] Topics about Class A  amplifier
To: <ham_amplifiers@yahoogroups.com>
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <1BAAF40AA74948B38564474F47073A78@PC200912151238>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

a) Anyone have experience  to modify his transceiver's final to Class A 
mode  as FT-1000MP MK  V?
I think if we haven't good enough driver, the external Power  amplifier 
cann't be have good 3rd IMD
performance, especially for tetrode  amplifier.
b)I'm planing to build an antenna muti-coupler for my 20  receivers.( 
similar ROHDE/SCHWARTZ  
NV-14T(http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/rohdeschwarz/nv14t/, MF-HF range)But  
R/S's design seems unmodern. I want to know anyone knows about  
hybrid-model or MMIC  for this application?the antenna multi-couple only  have 
0db 
power gain
, but with very good reverse  isolation and very  large dynamic range/3rd 
IMD performance.
I find out some models, for  example MHW591/592, but these model's gain are 
too more(more than 35db). Any  guys  knows more information about the 
appropriate Hybrid  model/MMIC?
Thanks in advance!
73!Hsu 

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu,  17 Dec 2009 15:48:47 -0600
From: "Mike using AT&T"  <k9mk@flash.net>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling strategies  for SB-220?
To: "'Carl'" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>, "'Hardy Landskov'"  <n7rt@cox.net>,
"'Colin Lamb'"  <k7fm@teleport.com>, "'Roger'" <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <007e01ca7f62$b73d4950$25b7dbf0$@net>
Content-Type:  text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

The 70V uses a  3CV1500A7.  

Instant on and water cooled, it does not get better  than this...

Mike
K9MK



-----Original  Message-----
From: amps-bounces@contesting.com  [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Carl
Sent: Thursday,  December 17, 2009 2:29 PM
To: Hardy Landskov; Colin Lamb; Roger
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling strategies for  SB-220?

That was the 1971 70V which used a modified 3CX1000A7. It was  somewhat 
troublesome and they soon added the 70A to the mix which used the  regular 
air cooled tube.  A short time later the first of the 77  models came along.

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message -----  
From: "Hardy Landskov" <n7rt@cox.net>
To: "Colin Lamb"  <k7fm@teleport.com>; "Roger" <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>; 
"Carl"  <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Cc: <amps@contesting.com>
Sent:  Thursday, December 17, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling  strategies for SB-220?


> There was an article in QST many years  ago called "The Stanley Steamer" 
> which described water cooled tubes.  I believe ETO built an amp based on 
a 
> water cooled tube that Eimac  made that had 1500 watts plate dissipation. 
> The principle being it  takes 539 calories of heat to convert 1 gram of 
> water at 100 deg C to  vapor if I remember my thermodynamics correctly.
> 73 Hardy  N7RT
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Colin Lamb"  <k7fm@teleport.com>
> To: "Roger" <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>;  "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
> Cc:  <amps@contesting.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:58  AM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling strategies for  SB-220?
>
>
>> Water Cooling:
>>
>> Jo  Jennings, W6EI, installed a converted water cooled 4CX250 in the 
base  
>> of his mobile whip.  He converted.  I think Eimac  subsequently built 
some

>> water cooled version based upon the  results.  There was a writeup in CQ 
>> or QST in the  fifties.
>>
>> 73,  Colin  K7FM
>>  _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing  list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>  

_______________________________________________
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Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps




------------------------------

Message:  4
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 13:20:10 +0000
From: Ron Youvan  <ka4inm@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] water cooling
To:  amps <amps@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <4B2CD30A.1010109@tampabay.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

> MSDC Klystrons ran around ten  feet @ 32KV applied.

If they use Teflon tubing a foot  might be sufficient.  Different brands 
are cooled differently so 
it  may depend on the arrangement.
-- 
Ron  KA4INM - Of  what you see in books, believe 75%.  Of newspapers, 
believe  50%.
And of  TV news, believe 25% --
make that 5% if the anchorman wears a  blazer.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date:  Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:26:57 +0000
From: Dave White  <mausoptik@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling  strategies for SB-220?
To: Hardy Landskov <n7rt@cox.net>, Colin Lamb  <k7fm@teleport.com>,
Roger  <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>, Carl <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <20091217202705.A4EC01B607D5@dayton.contesting.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

If my memory serves me correctly the  Stanley Steamer was actually a vapour 
phase tube (a 3CV*** or 4CV*** as  opposed to a 3CW*** etc) in a boiler 
rather than a water cooled  tube.

Eimac published this as an amateur service newsletter or  similar.  I do 
have a copy somewhere if you'd like me to copy it.   Actually I have all the 
Eimac bulletins and keep meaning to scan them when I  get some of that rare 
resource called 'time'

Cheers
Dave  G0OIL

-----Original Message-----
From: "Hardy Landskov"  <n7rt@cox.net>
To: "Colin Lamb" <k7fm@teleport.com>; "Roger"  <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>; 
"Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Sent: 17/12/2009 19:57
Subject: Re: [Amps]  Alternative cooling strategies for SB-220?

There was an article in QST  many years ago called "The Stanley Steamer" 
which described water cooled  tubes. I believe ETO built an amp based on a 
water cooled tube that Eimac  made that had 1500 watts plate dissipation. 
The 
principle being it takes  539 calories of heat to convert 1 gram of water 
at 
100 deg C to vapor if I  remember my thermodynamics correctly.
73 Hardy N7RT

----- Original  Message ----- 
From: "Colin Lamb" <k7fm@teleport.com>
To: "Roger"  <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>; "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Cc:  <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2009 11:58  AM
Subject: Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling strategies for  SB-220?

[truncated by  sender]


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date:  Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:15:07 -0500
From: "Wayne King"  <n2wk@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: [Amps] Dentron Needs Plate  Choke
To: <amps@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <001FDAF99B904691A1FDCA1EFDEFBDED@WAYNEKING>
Content-Type:  text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

I need to replace the plate choke in my DTR-2000L.  It's arching and 
causing 
an intermittent buzz on the air. Anyone have some  old spare parts (plate 
choke) from these amps or the MLA series laying  around? If not what would 
be 
a suitable replacement and from  who?

73, and Season's Greeting,

Wayne N2WK  



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat,  19 Dec 2009 07:57:23 -0800
From: MIKE DURKIN  <patriot121@msn.com>
Subject: [Amps] Site translator
To: amps  fourm <amps@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <COL110-W154DBF396C04C031C84D2492840@phx.gbl>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Any one know of a web page  translator that translates the WHOLE page?? I 
tried Googles trnslator and it  only trnslated the first 20 lines or so... of 
this  page
http://www.cqham.ru/HiFi_Contester_EX8A.htm    or an english  version ....

Mike
KC7NOA

_________________________________________________________________
Your  E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail  Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

------------------------------

Message:  8
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:07:24 -0600
From: "Roy"  <royanjoy@ncn.net>
Subject: Re: [Amps] QSK switching  time...etc.
To: <amps@contesting.com>
Message-ID:  <E5844B57ED6F4FFF835C686EBC4E018A@RoyPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;  format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

About,

"...When back biased a diode exhibits  a varactor effect: it acts as a
capacitance, whose magnitude is inversely  proportional with the applied
voltage. Even a few Pico farads in series  with the receive path can have a
disastrous effect on the receiver. Sooo  the receive path has to be back
biased by high voltage too!
This  characteristic is exhibited even by the very highest quality PIN
diodes,  like those manufactured by Chelton especially for the purpose. I
know: I  used them when I was working, designing multikilowatt amplifiers 
for
the  army. (etc.)"


True only if you are using separates. With a  transceiver, the rig is in 
transmit mode during key downs. Receiver is  disconnected then from the 
PINs.

73,   Roy    K6XK




------------------------------

Message:  9
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:26:53 EST
From: texasrf@aol.com
Subject:  Re: [Amps] Alternative cooling strategies for SB-220?
To:  mausoptik@btinternet.com, k7fm@teleport.com,
sub1@rogerhalstead.com, km1h@jeremy.mv.com
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Message-ID:  <1925.66e48d64.385bfc1d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="US-ASCII"


You can narrow it down to only 10 issues by  referring to the yearly index  
in the December issues in those  days.

73,
Gerald K5GW

In a message dated 12/17/2009 2:17:39  P.M. Central Standard Time,  
mausoptik@btinternet.com  writes:

Colin,  can you narrow it down a bit beyond 'the fifties'?  I have most 
QSTs 
from that  era but if you or anyone can narrow it  below 120   issues.....

Cheers
Dave


-----Original   Message-----
From: "Colin Lamb" <k7fm@teleport.com>
To:  "Roger"  <sub1@rogerhalstead.com>; "Carl"  <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Cc:  amps@contesting.com
Sent:  17/12/2009 18:58
Subject: Re: [Amps]  Alternative cooling strategies  for SB-220?

Water Cooling:

Jo  Jennings, W6EI, installed a  converted water cooled 4CX250 in the base 
of his  mobile whip.   He converted.  I think Eimac subsequently built some 
 
water  cooled version based upon the results.  There was a writeup in CQ   
or 
QST in the fifties.

73,  Colin  K7FM   
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------------------------------

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End  of Amps Digest, Vol 84, Issue  63
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