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Re: [Amps] Results from new PSUD... resistor b4 the B+ filter caps !

To: <TexasRF@aol.com>, <Jim.thom@telus.net>, <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Results from new PSUD... resistor b4 the B+ filter caps !
From: "Gary Schafer" <garyschafer@comcast.net>
Reply-to: garyschafer@comcast.net
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:54:48 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
I just looked at PSUD with a 25 ohm transformer, 2500 VAC and 25uf with 8
ohm esr filter cap. No resistor before filter. 
The surge current on the first half cycle is around 26 amps. Then peak
current settles down to around 4.5 amps with around 1 amp rms on the load.

With a 25 ohm resistor added before the filter the surge current at startup
is around 22 amps and peak current settles to around 4 amps.

It doesn't look like the resistor does much good as far as startup. Only 4
amps different on peak current on the first half cycle. 

It seems to me that a primary step start is a much better way to go, if one
is even needed. As long as the breaker don't trip and the diodes can handle
the peak current.

73
Gary k4FMX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: amps-bounces@contesting.com [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com]
> On Behalf Of TexasRF@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 11:23 AM
> To: Jim.thom@telus.net; amps@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Results from new PSUD... resistor b4 the B+ filter
> caps !
> 
> One last question: Does the resistor in the secondary provide any
> benefits
> over a proper value resistor located in the primary circuit?
> 
> 73,
> Gerald K5GW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 2/11/2010 8:55:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> Jim.thom@telus.net writes:
> 
> OK,  Now that I have the latest version of psud... it just   reafirms
> my
> real life test, done on a 3100 vdc  real  supply,
> using a  46 lb dahl  xfmr.... and a  25 uf  cap....... and a 22 ohm
> resistor  BEFORE the  25 uf cap.
> 
> I  used the 2000 vac  tap on the  46 lb dahl  [ it has taps for
> 1500/2000/2500/2750]
> 
> Pri is DUAL  110 vac windings.. with   windings in series. [220 vac] ..
> and
>  240 vac  stuffed into  it.  [ sec  ends up a little , at 2181 vac]
> 
> 220   vac  pri = .16 ohm  dc resistance
> 2181 vac sec = 25.5 ohms   dc resistance
> Input Z  of  xfmr  is = 38.72 ohms
> 
> 25  uf filter.... [ 8 ohms esr,  old style 200 uf  caps were 1 ohm esr
> each... 8  x caps in series]
> 
> Load is  900 ma  cxr.
> 
> 
> Results  WITH  22 ohm resistor inserted B4   the  25 uf cap.
> 
> vdc  across load  = 2752 vdc   [UNDER  A  900 Ma  LOAD]
> 
> V drop across  22  ohm resistor =  101 v MAX on peaks.... or  40 vrms
> 
> Current  through the  22 ohm resistor = 4.68A MAX.... or 1.82A   RMS
> 
> Current  flowing into 25 uf cap  = 3.7 A   max.....  1.58A  RMS
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ...........
> 
> OK....  now with 22 ohm resistor  REMOVED !!!
> 
> Vdc  across load =  2820 vdc   [ UNDER THE SAME  900 Ma  LOAD]     An
> INCREASE  of  just  68 vdc .....  not  a helluva  big difference.
> 
> Current into 25 uf  cap  = 4.31 a  MAX..... or  1.71 A   RMS.
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ................................................................
> OK..  here we increase the load  to 2 A .... and   NO  resistor
> 
> 
> 2624  vdc  under load  of  2 A
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> .................................
> 
> Now   with the  22 ohm resistor.. and a 2A load.
> 
> 2514 vdc    under load of 2A          A  110 vdc   DROP.. with   22 ohm
> resistor in the  circuit.     More of  a difference  here.
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ...........
> 
> OK....  now lets IN-crease the filter  cap..from  25 uf..... up to   312
> uf
>   + .136 ohm TOTAL  ESR   [ ,017 ohm  per cap,  8 x caps  in series,
> caps
> are CD  400  series... 2" diam  x 4" long]
> 
> 2581 vdc  under load of  2A       and  22 ohm resistor IN  the circuit.
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ................................................
> 
> OK...   312 uf filter cap  and a load of 2A....  and  NO     22 ohm
> resistor.
> 
> 2710 vdc  under load of 2 A.... and the  22  ohm R  is OUT  of the
> circuit.
>       This is  a  129 vdc  improvement    with the 22 ohm resistor
> REMOVED.
> 
> BTW.... conduction time   of pulses  INTO the  312 uf  cap is 2 msecs
> with
> 22 ohm resistor In the  circuit...  and 1.8 msecs  with  22 ohm resistor
> OUT of the circuit.
> 
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ........................................................................
> ....
> ...............................................
> 
> ###   So  with a  run of the mill   3 kv  supply......and  sucking 900
> ma... adding a 22 ohm resistor   B4 the filter cap   cost you  aprx  68
> vdc
> drop.      And it   MIGHT  be able to be used for step start.... since
> it takes
> 70  msecs  to  ramp up to max vdc.... on initial turn on. [  NO  load..
> except  for the  800K  eq resistor /bleeder [ 100k   per cap]     Dunno
> if it's
> really worse the hassle  of  shorting out the 22 ohm resistor.. with a
> vac
> relay... for a lousy   68 vdc  increase.
> 
> Sri for the diatribe, it  appears  Mr. Garland, W8ZR is  correct on all
> accounts.
> 
> later......... Jim   VE7RF
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