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Re: [Amps] A tale of two IMs What happens?

To: "'AMPS'" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] A tale of two IMs What happens?
From: "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 10:11:32 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>

> Jim Thomson wrote:
>>
>> ###  per ssb  systems and circuits, et all... the consensus was/is
>> that if 2 x IDENTICAL.. IMD  circuits are in series...  say a TX.. with
>> -40db imd3... driving a linear amp also with  -40db imd3... the
>> author's claim the worse case you would get is -34db imd3.
>> The best case you could get achieve is -37db  to -38db IMD3.
>
> There are lots of claims, but I have not seen anybody post anything to
> substantiate these claims.
>
> I think it is a quite complex issue. I suspect an exact analysis is 
> possible,
> which would put absolute limits on the parameters, but it would not be 
> trivial.
>
> The fact that the 3rd order products of one device makes higher order 
> products
> in another, means you can't simply add powers.
>
>> If you have to get a signal over a very long distance using cables, then 
>> the
>> losses of the cables obviously become significant, and you might need to
>> have many amplifiers in series. So the source is connected to the load 
>> like
>> this:
>>
>> source -> CL -> A -> CL -> A -> CL -> A -> CL -> A -> load
>>
>> where:
>> CL = 20 dB of cable loss
>> A = 20 dB gain amplifier
>>
>> ## IF I remember correctly, the gain of the CATV amps was much
>> greater than the cable loss.  I THINK the input of each successive
>> CATV amp was padded down.  Sorta like  25 db gain - 20 db CL -
>> then 5db padding - then CATV amp, then another 20db cable loss, etc.
>> The CATV amps all used equalizers too, since the cable attenuation
>> was not uniform... but rises on the higher freqs.  IE: pre-emphasis
>> employed, whereby higher freqs get amplified far mote than lower
>> freqs.  Also known as slope equalizer's.
>
> Well, irrespective of whether there is a pad or cable loss, or 
> pre-emphasis, the
> fact remains the situation is completely different from amateur radio, 
> where the
> aim of the amplifier is to produce a bigger signal, rather than to just 
> overcome
> losses. As such, the analysis from the CATV book seems totally 
> inapplicable to me.
>
>
> Dave


I consider the CATV amp analogy a good way to understand what is happening 
in a receiver. There is no need to cascade amps, simply add xx number of 
sources into a single amp which becomes the radios front end. The 2 signal 
IMD method of testing an amp or a radio is equally useless except for 
marketing.

Carl
KM1H

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