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Re: [Amps] running two 3 phase transformer serie/parallel

To: wlfuqu00@uky.edu, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] running two 3 phase transformer serie/parallel
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:24:08 -0400 (EDT)
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Hi Bill, if the primaries were connected in parallel, I would agree with  
you. But, the in discussion  case, the transformer primaries will be  
connected in series which forces the primary current to be the same in both  
transformers.
 
If the primary current is equal and the turns ratio is slightly different,  
the primary voltage will divide as dictated by the turns ratio, forcing the 
 secondary voltage to be equal. The common point in the series connection 
is  floating in respect to ground or the voltage source.
 
I can't see how a low source impedance would change any of this. AC power  
source impedance better be very low if there is to be any line voltage  
stability. Otherwise, there would be large voltage fluctuations as the load  
changes when various equipment cycles on/off. If a 100 ampere load causes a  
voltage drop of 5 volts, then the impedance would 5/100 or .05 ohms. That 
seems  pretty low.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/27/2011 9:24:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
wlfuqu00@uky.edu writes:

That depends on the impedance of the power source. If it is very low  
this balancing effect would be minimal and there would be
current flow  between the secondaries.
I have a 5kW plasma generator which  is identical to the 3kW versions 
except the 3kW has one transformer and  the 5kW has
two in parallel.  Obviously the transformers are very well  matched.

73
Bill wa4lav


At 04:55 AM 10/27/2011 -0400, you  wrote:
>Hi Mike. back feeding from one secondary to the other may not be  such a 
bad
>  thing. That would force the primary voltage division  to the two
>transformers to  be exactly what is needed for equal  secondary voltages.
>
>The primary current will be the same since  they are in series. Secondary
>current would be +/- small amount as  dictated by the turns ratio.
>
>Does that make any  sense?
>
>My take on this is to hardwire the two transformers  (after phase
>confirmation) and standby for sparks
>
>Very  interesting application!
>
>73,
>Gerald  K5GW
>
>
>
>In a message dated 10/27/2011 3:37:53 A.M.  Central Daylight Time,
>mike@tubby.org  writes:
>
>Carel,
>
>I think what you were originally  suggesting might  work, as long as you
>have access to both sides  of each primary  winding.
>
>If you call the phases Red (R),  Yellow (Y) and Blue (B) as we  used to in
>the UK, the transformers  #1 and #2 and the ends of the windings  A and  B,
>then:
>
>Red = R1A [primary] R1B --- R2A  [primary]  R2B
>Yellow = Y1A [primary] Y1B --- Y2A  [primary] Y2B
>Blue  = B1A [primary] B1B --- B2A  [primary] B2B
>
>each primary is  in series and will see  half-voltage.  You still need to
>know  if you are to power it in  'star' or 'delta'.
>
>On the  output side the easiest (safest) thing to do  would probably be  6
>x diodes, each one a half-wave rectifier and parallel  the DC  side going
>in to the smoothing - this way if one of the   transformers provides 5-10V
>more off load than the other it won't  back  need another secondary 
winding.
>
>Alternatively you  could use two  three-phase rectifiers and parallel the
>DC sides  going in to your  smoothing.
>
>Rectifier arrangements  are   here:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier
>
>
>Regards
>
>
>Mike   G8TIC
>
>
>
>
>On 26/10/2011 10:40, pc5m,  Carel  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Gerald,
>  >
> > We have here 400V 3  phase power (voltage between  the
> > phase's) and as a result 230V between  a phase and  ground. So the 
lowest
> > voltage I have "available" is   230Vac...
> >
> > gl, Carel.
> >
> > On  Tue, 25 Oct
> >  2011 18:02:30 -0400 (EDT), TexasRF@aol.com  wrote:
> >
> >> Carel,  what is
> > your  primary voltage there? Do you have three phase primary  power?
>  >>
> > 73,
> >> Gerald K5GW
>  >>
> >>  In a message dated 10/25/2011 1:11:15  P.M.
> > Central Daylight Time,  pc5m@xs4all.nl writes:
>  >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I   have
> > two identical 3 phase high voltage transformer (each around  4KVA  /
> >>> 50
> > kg/ 100 pounds). Issue is  they are designed for  US 3 phase voltages.
> > (so
>  >>> 120 / 204V) so can't use them  in Europe as is. What I would  like
> > to do is to
> >>> put the  2 units at  the primary side in serie and at the
> > secondary side   in
> >>> parallel. Primary and secondary in wye   config.
> >>>
> >>> Q: Would there be any  benefit of  connecting the secondary windings
> > of the
>  >>> two  transformers first parallel and than rectify (with  only
> > one  rectifier
> >>> bridge) or the  other way around ? For me it is  much
> > easier to first  rectify
> >>> both transformers and  than put the  rectified
> > voltage parallel (only one
> >>>   highvoltage interconnect between both the
> > big/heavy  transformer  boxes.).
> >>> I have seen some  constellations
> > with two 3  phase transformer to gain  some
> >>> benefit in creating
> >  additional  phases in order to reduce the ripple voltage
> >>> even   more.
> > Don't know if I could utilize such a thing as well ?  However,  if
> >>> I
> > recall they were placed  in parallel at the  input.
> >>> Thanks for any
>  > idea's . Gl,  Carel
> >>>
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