Do you think that #12 enameled close wound would withstand the voltage turn
to turn? The coil I have is #14 on a ceramic core. The wire is spaced about
the same size as the #14. So there is space for
cooling. And the coilform has lots of holes in it for even better
ventilation.
I would think that 125 degrees F is no problem for #14 on a ceramic
coilform?
My calculations:
#12 enamel is .085 dia. X45 turns = 3.825 inches long.
A coil that is 2" X 3.825 is 42.8 uH which is what I need.
Thoughts?
73
Jim W7RY
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 7:36 AM
To: Jim W7RY ; "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@mx.contesting.com
Cc: AMPS
Subject: Re: [Amps] More on Toroidal Tank Circuit Issues
That form is grooved too tight for larger wire but Carl also has #10 and 12
heavy enameled copper wire.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim W7RY" <w7ry@centurytel.net>
To: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@mx.contesting.com>
Cc: "AMPS" <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2014 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Amps] More on Toroidal Tank Circuit Issues
So here is the real fix!
I removed the 80 and 160 meter toroids all together. Installed a 2" dia X
3.5" long ceramic coil with 42 turns of #14 wire and hooked it to the end
of the 40 meter coil. The new coil is perpendicular to the 20-40 meter
coil.
Works perfectly! No more 10 meter heating! And on 80 meters, with lots of
keydown at 1600 watts out, the coil gets to about 125 degrees F, and on
160 a little less. But I normally don’t run RTTY on 160 meters. As of yet,
all RTTY contests are on 80-10.
The best bet will be to find a ceramic coil or just the coil-form that I
can wind with #12 or #10 wire. 10 is probably a bit too big. I guess I
could wind 80 meters with #10 and 160 meters with #12. I really want to
stay with a ceramic coil-form to keep it from deforming like a air-dux
coil would.
I know Carl has a ceramic form on the auction site but it too is wound
with #14 wire.
Anyone have a 2" (and it must not be more than 2-1/4" X 5 or 6 inch long
ceramic coil-form with grooves for winding? It has to have at least 36
grooves for 36 turns of wire.
This has been an interesting experiment to say the least!
Thanks all
73
Jim W7RY
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim W7RY
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2014 1:25 PM
To: Dan Hearn
Cc: AMPS
Subject: Re: [Amps] More on Toroidal Tank Circuit Issues
So I used the measurement technique from Tom W8JI that he has on his site
and found that the 160 meter toroid was certainly resonate on 10 meters!
No matter what I did. Sure, I could move my hand around the toroid and get
the the lamp to dim and sometimes go out. But there didn’t seem to be any
place moving the windings that would help.
http://www.w8ji.com/rf_plate_choke.htm
So..... I made a center tap on the 160 meter toroid and simply shorted it
to one end with a normally closed vacuum relay. I open the relay only on
160 meters.
See here:
http://s900.photobucket.com/user/w7ry/media/8877%20Amplifier/IMG_0250_zps17bca129.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
Seems to work just great. No arcing or sparking. As you can see, the leads
are pretty long and the relay is just taped to the Plexiglas. I used the
bench power supply to energize the relay on 160. There was no interaction
with anything. Even had the lid off when testing 160 meters.
The toroid seems to run perfectly cool (about a 10 degree temperature rise
on 10 meters measuring with my Fluke IR thermometer) when operating on all
bands. Tuning seemed better and more power output with less drive and
lower plate current for the same output power (1600 watts) on 10 meters
just like removing the toroid all together.
I'm going to move the 160 meter toroid back to where it was, and move it
further from the load vacuum cap. If I had it to do over again, I would
have mounted the caps closer to the outside walls to give me more room to
work between them.
I’ll also have to wire up the relay to energize on 160 meters. Rather than
tie into the tuned input switching, I’ll just put another switch contact
between the front panel and the sub panel.
73
Jim W7RY
From: Dan Hearn
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 5:47 PM
To: Jim W7RY
Cc: AMPS
Subject: Re: [Amps] More on Toroidal Tank Circuit Issues
Jim, I would try a small air wound coil similar to what you would use in a
parasitic suppressor in series with the toroid, maybe in the lead to the
switch.
Dan, N5AR
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Jim W7RY <w7ry@centurytel.net> wrote:
Both leads are shored by the band switch when on 10 meters guys.
Interesting that 3 of you came up with the same possibility...
Not sure where to put the capacitor if both leads are shorted together.
Perhaps I could center tap the toroid (bare the Teflon wire) and solder a
cap from the center tap to one of the output leads.
I removed the toroid and the major heat in the 3 turns of wire is where
the winding is within 1/4 inch of the vacuum loading cap. Which is
probably to close.
See:
http://s900.photobucket.com/user/w7ry/media/8877%20Amplifier/P1010217.jpg.html?sort=3&o=16
I was simply going to move it away from the loading cap and see what
happens. I was also thinking of install a wire coil. I have a ceramic coil
form that would work. 30 turns, 2”dia 3.5” long which is 20uH. I have room
to mount this.
Thanks all!
73
Jim W7RY
From: Dan Hearn
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 3:02 PM
To: Jim W7RY
Cc: AMPS
Subject: Re: [Amps] More on Toroidal Tank Circuit Issues
Jim, I think your 160 toroid when shorted is self resonant with its
distributed capacitance on 10m. You might be able to solve this by
putting a small cap across the 160 m toroid to move its self resonance.
73, Dan, N5AR
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Jim W7RY <w7ry@centurytel.net> wrote:
I may have to eat some crow here about using dedicated toroids on 160
and 80 meters...
I built an 8877 amplifier based on the K8RA (SK) 3CX1500D7 amplifier.
http://www.k8ra.com/index_049.htm
Mine is shown here:
http://s900.photobucket.com/user/w7ry/media/8877%20Amplifier/DSC_0037.jpg.html?sort=3&o=47
And here:
http://s900.photobucket.com/user/w7ry/media/8877%20Amplifier/P1010225.jpg.html?sort=3&o=13
The lower toroid is 160 only and the upper one is 80 meters only (with
10,15,20 and 40 coils added in of course).
I’m using a shorting band switch 6 position.
On 10 meters, the 160 meter toroid (lower one) gets so hot, the
fiberglass tape has turned brown, and the Teflon wire is melting the
Plexiglas that the toroid's are mounted on.
I know all about trying to use a tapped toroid for multiple bands is
wrong (except on the L coil of the Pi-L circuit, and see my postings about
the Commander HF-2500 and K1TTT’s pictures of same) but WHY is the 160
meter toroid getting so hot when using 10 meters? It's mounted very close
to the loading vacuum capacitor is the only thing that I can think of. But
the weird part, is that this just started. During all of the testing,
there was no problem, but now, its really getting HOT!
When testing, I had the top cover off of the amplifier, now that I’m
using it, the top cover is on. I’m going to try the test again with the
top off and see what happens.
On 80 and 160 meters, the toroids are normal temperature (around 100
degrees) and everything works just fine since I’m not shorting turns on
the toroids.
Ideas?
Thanks and 73
Jim W7RY
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Dan Hearn
N5AR
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Dan Hearn
N5AR
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