Very will said Doug. The K4WX (N4ZZ) 1000MP automatically comes with 20%
additional qso's per contest due to its history Hi. Congrats!!!
No doubt all radios have their own set of problems. What is important is to
determine if the problems or issues are "personal tastes/wants" or are they
of such impact as to render the radio operationally "challenged". In the
case of the Orion, 99% of the criticism is from those who "want" something
different, whether it is logical or not. The glowing product reviews by
credible reviewers support the quality of the product. In the case of the
Elecraft, it is a fine radio however, to me, needs of ease of operation,
especially during contests put it in the "challenged" catagory only because
of the size not because of technical deficiency as evidenced by the glowing
product reviews.
I have had the Orion and MP "side by side" here since early last year.
Personally I think the Orion is the best radio I have ever seen, hands
down..that said...the MP has certainly held its own for a long time. I had
two of them and still have one. I know. Considering the average age of
contesters and the fact that the over 40 crowd is flirting with the reading
glasses syndrome, using a rig that requires magnification to read the front
panel is probably not a first choice. The fact that Ten Tec chose to make
the Orion a little larger to me shows that they looked at their demographic
and met the needs with good ergonomics and a large screen which is very easy
read, understand and navigate through. So I agree Doug, it is easy to use..I
find it more intuitive than the MP. Now, to find the time to enjoy it :)
73, Tommy WD4K
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:00 AM
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Subject: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
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Today's Topics:
1. Elecraft size (WD4K)
2. CT 9.92.01 log submission (Alan C. Zack)
3. Re: Elecraft size (Doug Smith W9WI)
4. Deading dits chomped off (Tree)
5. W/VE signal strengths from last weekends contest
(Christoph Rheker)
6. Re: Elecraft size (Igor Sokolov)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:03:30 -0600
From: "WD4K" <Ttow1@charter.net>
To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Elecraft size
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Since someone brought up the size issue of the Elecraft:
Last year at Dayton brousing the booths I was accompanied by a couple
buddies who have decades of contest experience, so lots of hands on in our
group. We stopped by the Elecraft booth and after 30 seconds the comments
were, " it's a lot smaller than I thought" "I'd have to use reading glasses
to find the right buttons" and "it is so small my fingers would always wind
up on the wrong button", "looks like a mobile rig".
SO, despite being well designed with good performance, it is being dismissed
by some regardless of how great any other feature is. If it is difficult to
use in a high tempo environment when compared to the MP, Orion, 1000D, etc.,
then it had better be light years ahead in performance to garner even
minimal consideration. Probably a really good radio but certainly not light
years better to warrant a change from from several other fine options. No
doubt it will meet the needs of some ops and deserves its rightful place
among terrific radios, just not sitting side by side with the already proven
rigs in use. Tommy WD4K
-----Original Message-----
From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of
cq-contest-request@contesting.com
Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 11:00 AM
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Subject: CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 15, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. Elecraft, TenTec & contesting radios (Bob Schreibmaier)
2. Re: Lost leading 'dit' - summary (VR2BrettGraham)
3. RESULTS DIG QSO PARTY 2003 (Marc Domen, ON7SS)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:46:43 -0500
From: "Bob Schreibmaier" <k3ph@ptd.net>
To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Elecraft, TenTec & contesting radios
Message-ID: <001001c403c4$84141b00$6400a8c0@k3ph>
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I have used serial number 2552 and must agree with Bill.
It has the right architecture to be an excellent receiver,
but the filters are not good enough. I have also found
the opposite sideband rejection to not be quite up to
many other radios.
However, the biggest problem I have with the radio is the size.
The tuning knob is way too small, plus there are additional
controls close by on its left, getting in the way when
you're trying to tune. Even the micro-sized radios from
Yaecomwood don't have other knobs getting in the way when
you tune.
I also don't like the fact that the sideband used on CW
is different on some bands. It's annoying when you're
used to the pitch of signals going in one direction as
you tune each band and then finding different behavior on
the K2. There is a "reverse" switch, but I don't think
one should have to use it when changing bands. Of course,
a software revision could take care of this.
Overall, the receiver is very good in the presence of
strong signals (until you get very close, as Bill noted).
I very much like the single-conversion approach. It
would be nice if they had the ability to use at least
one 8-pole filter and, preferably, the ability to
cascade two 8-pole filters (like the old TS-180S).
That, plus the judicious use of DSP could make for
really nice basic receiver performance.
I haven't used a K2 on phone, but have been told that
the VOX gain is inadequate (sometimes) and that it
needs an anti-VOX control (that it doesn't have).
I've also been told that the 100-watt version folds
back power with SWR too quickly for some tastes.
As mine is just the basic 10-watt 80-10 meter,
CW only radio, I can't verify these complaints.
72/73,
____ / _____ /
/ ) / / /
/____/ ____ /___ (____ ____ /___ /___
/ ) / ) / ) ) / / ) /
/_____/ /____/ /____/ _____/ (____ / / / . . .
+----------------------------------------------+
| Bob Schreibmaier K3PH | E-mail: k3ph@ptd.net |
| Kresgeville, PA 18333 | http://www.dxis.org |
+----------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:47:22 +0000
From: VR2BrettGraham <vr2bg@harts.org.hk>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Lost leading 'dit' - summary
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20040307021247.00cdb238@pop.pacific.net.hk>
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W4ZV replied to VR2BG:
>>The Elecraft community is not interested in the least in what is needed
>>by the
>>contesting community in a product & are quite unreasonable about anything
>>that they don't like & they don't like contests to begin with. I suspect
the
>>contesting community is probably a bigger portion of the active equipment
>>market, so the idea is either to establish that the contesting community
>>really does use something, that it could be added & everybody could be
happy,
>>or the contesting community can sod off & take its custom elsewhere.
>
> I agree that we are confusing "community" with "company". It
>really doesn't matter to me what the current community thinks, because
>that's composed primarily of QRP'ers, backpackers, tinkerers, etc.
>They could certainly care less about what the contest community needs,
>but so what...what is important is what Elecraft THE COMPANY thinks.
The thing is that with Brand-E, the community appears to have some
weight. The line between company & community is somewhat blurred &
as one contesting K2 owner pointed out, the tinkerers have made some
significant contributions to the radio (various modifications & even
options).
The community matters & the company is closely tied to that community,
with largely benefit for all as a result...
> I know for a fact (via some direct communications with Elecraft's
>owners) that they are very interested in a contester/DXer friendly
>implementation of the K2. Remember that the K2 evolved as a portable
>QRP radio, and has only recently gotten the attention of contesters
>and DX'ers because of its excellent receiver performance and because
>the 100W version recently became available.
I agree with you about the interest from having had the same direct
communications. The community wouldn't have anything to do with another
suggested change to firmware which would be of benefit for the contesting
segment - very negative & even not understanding what it was that was
going on - the response from the company was like chalk & cheese, even
going so far as to explain the limitations & talk about how to deal with
them.
End result, suggestion was implemented.
Sadly, CW PTT - something that looks to be something that more would
benefit from than the other (way to clear RIT in transmit) - met with an
even
more hostile reaction from the community & appears to be something that the
company has no interest in looking at, or has been put off for another day.
> Elecraft is definitely interested in a version of the K2 aimed
>at the mainstream market of contesters and DXers. IMHO, there are
>relatively few changes needed to make the K2+ into a superb product.
>On my list are:
>
>1. Ergonomically-friendly product design (think LARGE like Orion
>or the FT-1000 family) both physically and functionally.
I'm getting used to the small box - though I continue to be a lid at times &
fail to engage SPLIT mode & transmit in the wrong place. My gut feeling -
based on comments from the company whenever a K3 or K2+ thread
starts on the Elecraft list, plus their heritage, I suspect this one would
not
be taken on board.
>2. Offer optional 8-pole filters in addition to the current programmable
>filter. The K2's IMD performance is already exceptional, but it falls
>apart rather badly for signal spacings under 5 kHz, and how many contests
>do you recall with signals spaced 5 kHz apart? Simply adding an 8-pole
>500 Hz filter would probablly put the K2 into Orion-class performance,
>and possibly even exceed it at 1 kHz spacings.
Another firmware issue. An alternative filter of the calibre contesters are
used to is available _now_. There are what - five? - filter "choices" in
the
current firmware, but for want of lines that actually wiggle differently
when
four of those five are selected, nobody can use the INRAD filter that's been
available for the K2 & that will probably dampen anything more W2VJN
might do for the K2. A firmware fix for this would appeal to not only the
contester, but also the DXer & most importantly, the tinkerer.
> What I pray is that Elecraft not get carried away with "whistles
>and bells" which would add unnecessary cost and little value to the
>current product...no dual-RX, no spectrum scopes, no general coverage,
>no FM...yada, yada yada. If Elecraft could deliver an assembled product
>in the $1500-2000 range (most of which could be done by subcontracting),
>I believe they could absolutely dominate the mainstream contester/DXer
>market. With two K2+'s, a SO2R contester would have an outstanding
>station for about what one Orion costs. For reasons I do not understand,
>Ten-Tec says they are not interested in pursuing this market, although it
>could easily be done by downscaling Orion (strip out dual-RX, spectrum
>scope, FM, etc). Of course Ten-Tec also said they would never do CW PTT,
>but customers and markets (a.k.a. $$$) have apparently caused them to
>rethink their stance about CW PTT. ;-)) Having faced issues like this
>myself when I was in business, I can tell you it will be far easier for
>Elecraft to upscale the K2 than it will for Ten-Tec to downscale Orion.
>Time will tell.
An assembled product is a significant deviation from anything Elecraft has
done, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. I really miss the sub-RX &
sometimes the filtering gymnastics possible on other rigs, but otherwise
I've adapted well to the K2. It's been a long time since I worked in that
industry, but I suspect it will be hard for anyone to break into, should
they
decide to take the plunge, for a more mainstream transceiver product since
it would have to appeal to the other segments of the market, who I think
are probably now hooked on the equivalent of motorized wing mirrors (bells
& whistles matter more than raw radio performance).
> I also know that there are some excellent contesters local to
>Elecraft that are providing input into a next generation K2+. If
>Elecraft listens carefully, and I have no reason to believe they won't,
>I suspect we'll see an outstanding product from them in the future.
A few firmware changes to the K2 whilst we're waiting for what has been
repeatedly denied would be helpful. Other ideas might surface that might be
taken on board for this next product as a result of engaging the contesting
community.
RIT clear, CW PTT & filter selection - I'm kicking myself for not having
brought
all three up at same time as there may have been a chance... the K2 looks
to have reached a plateau & I wouldn't be surprised that the firmware
release
cycle will only get longer as a result.
73, VR2BrettGraham
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 12:05:55 +0100
From: "Marc Domen, ON7SS" <Marc.Domen@skynet.be>
To: "Contest Reflector" <cq-contest@contesting.com>,
"DIG" <dl-dig@yahoogroups.com>, "DIG" <dig@listen.ac-net.de>
Cc: ON4CAS Egbert <egbert.hertsen@pandora.be>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] RESULTS DIG QSO PARTY 2003
Message-ID: <005f01c40434$2fe4c9b0$3400a8c0@marc>
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DIG QSO PARTY 2003
A month before the next DIG QSO Party the results of last year where still
not traceable anywhere.
Thanks to DF2KD I got hold of them.
For those interested I have placed the results on my own website in WORD.
You can download them from
http://users.skynet.be/bk260445/on7ss/contest_results/dig_qso_2003.html
Vy 73 Marc, ON7SS DIG 3517
****************************************
Marc Domen
Amateur Radio Station ON7SS
UBA HF Contest Info
DIG 3517
mailto:Marc.Domen@skynet.be
****************************************
------------------------------
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End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 15, Issue 10
******************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:31:40 -0800
From: "Alan C. Zack" <k7acz@cox.net>
To: CQ-Contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] CT 9.92.01 log submission
Message-ID: <404BBEEC.1A51B850@cox.net>
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Just did the WRITELOG command after the end of the ARRL DX SSB and in
checking both my cabrillo and .ALL logs I find CT changed my 20 meter
freq reading during the contest.
I started the contest on 20 meters and my first 21 Q's were logged as
14000. I then QSY's to 40, 80, 160, shut down for the night and the
next day started logging again on 15 and 10. I QSY'd to 20 mtrs again
at QSO number 154 and all my 20 meter QSO's now show a freq of 14175.
Do I need to change all my 20 meter QSO's after they changed to 14175
back to 14000 on my cabrillo log or will the log checking software
score it OK as is?
TIA & 73
--
__________________________________________________________________________
Alan Zack
Amateur Radio Station K7ACZ
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
Quality Engineer, The Boeing Company, Retired
Aviation Chief Warrant Officer, U.S. Coast Guard, Retired
U.S. Coast Guard, Always Ready, Always There
Every hour, Every day, Around the Clock and Around the World
SEMPER PARATUS
------------------------------
Date: 07 Mar 2004 18:55:31 -0600
From: Doug Smith W9WI <w9wi@earthlink.net>
To: cq-contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Elecraft size
Message-ID: <1078707333.31714.15.camel@linux3>
In-Reply-To: <HAEAJMNPIELHPCHBDEEPCEHDCLAA.Ttow1@Charter.net>
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On Sun, 2004-03-07 at 15:03, WD4K wrote:
> Since someone brought up the size issue of the Elecraft:
> Last year at Dayton brousing the booths I was accompanied by a couple
> buddies who have decades of contest experience, so lots of hands on in our
> group. We stopped by the Elecraft booth and after 30 seconds the comments
> were, " it's a lot smaller than I thought" "I'd have to use reading
glasses
> to find the right buttons" and "it is so small my fingers would always
wind
> up on the wrong button", "looks like a mobile rig".
> SO, despite being well designed with good performance, it is being
dismissed
> by some regardless of how great any other feature is. If it is difficult
to
> use in a high tempo environment when compared to the MP, Orion, 1000D,
etc.,
> then it had better be light years ahead in performance to garner even
> minimal consideration. Probably a really good radio but certainly not
light
That said, some of the bigger radios share some of the same
problems<grin>!
K4WX recently bought an Orion, and sold me one of his MPs. (***yes, it
has the key click mod***) I diddled with the Orion while I was there.
Told Don what really stuck out about the Ten-Tec: the controls are big
enough and far enough apart to be easy to operate. Even the softkeys
(and the text on the display that tells you what the softkeys do) are
big.
Something that's unfortunately not true of other radios, unfortunately
including the MP...
I'm also impressed with the Orion's firmware. I was getting Don's set
up for RTTY, and was able to navigate most of the menus without touching
the owner's manual. During a contest, you should be able to do basic
things without having to dig through the book.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 19:13:12 -0600
From: Tree <tree@kkn.net>
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: [CQ-Contest] Deading dits chomped off
Message-ID: <20040308011312.GA17602@kkn.net>
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The problem of chopping off leading dits has always been one of my
personal hot buttons. Back about 15 years ago the MM3 keyer was
the hot new toy. It included a PTT output which was really cool,
but the firmware didn't initially have any delay between when the
PTT was asserted and CW started coming out.
Luckily, AEA was willing to fix that in firmware and the MM3 was
really a class act. You could send a signal dit and it didn't
matter if your transmitter/amp were keyed down initially or not,
you would see your wattmeter jump up the same amount.
This was really useful when I operated EA9IE in the CQ WW CW in
1990. I knew that there wasn't a loud POP on the bands when I
started transmitting (which you typically hear if your amp relays
are being hot switched). However, the other EA9's that were a
few hundred meters away had no idea what I was trying to say when
I asked them not to use VOX.
It is really a form of pollution on the airwares, and I am glad
finally that some of the other logging programs are including
this as a feature. TR Log has had it all along.
If you are worried that you might be sending out garbage at the
start of your transmissions, listen up the band with a second
receiver. If you hear a big click when you send your first dit,
and it goes away if you put your rig in transmit before sending
a dit - you have some timing issues to resolve. Typically, if
you put about 10 or 15 milliseconds between when your PTT is
asserted and when your CW starts, everything will be totally
settled. The delay is almost impossible to perceive. You can
try reducing it until you start to hear the click.
You could even use an AM radio probably (tune up to the top
of the band and transmit on 160 or 80 meters).
As for the K2 part of this, the PTT signal is the same as one
side of the paddle - which means it is more than a matter of
new firmware to fix that problem. Your best bet is to use the
K2 in QSK mode, and key your amplifier with the PTT signal coming
from your computer.
73 Tree N6TR
tree@kkn.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:58:11 -0000
From: "Christoph Rheker" <christor@microsoft.com>
To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: [CQ-Contest] W/VE signal strengths from last weekends contest
Message-ID:
<96BC9475CCC25C40907B3B2950A3EB5E930ECB@EUR-MSG-12.europe.corp.microsoft.com
>
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Hello contesters,
here is a list of some signal strengths from last weekends ARRL SSB
contest.
RIG: TS870
Ant: 80/40 Dual-Band Sloper at 10m. 10/15/20 2 Ele Yagi at 10m.
73 de Chris, DL4YAO
****************************************
80m 4-5h UTC
I found 80m disappointing, with the exception of N5DX/N9RV only US East
was heard.
S5
NN2W N5DX AA3B K4MM
S6
N9RV=20
S7
AA1k W4SVO W3FV K3LR K4ZW
S8
W2RE N3RS N3AD K3OOO K1IR W3BGN KB1H K3NA
S9
KC1XX K4JA W3LPL K3CR AA1BU
*******************************************
40m 6-7h UTC
Same comment as 80m. Maybe K4XS was a tick stronger than W3LPL,
difficult to say with the QSB and broadcast splatter all over the place.
Did not spent much time on 40m.
S8
N9RV
S9
N3AD K3LR
S9+10
KC1XX K4JA K1KI
S9+20
K4XS W3LPL
******************************************
20m abt 11-12h UTC
Surprising that during this time the only station from more west
was VE6WQ and he was STRONG!
S9
VE1JF VE3RM W2RE KQ2M K2XA W3BGN W1BK KB1H=20
S9+10
VE6WQ VY2ZM VO1MP K4JA K3ZO K4ZW K3NA K3WW
S9+20
K1IR KC1XX K1RX=20
*****************************************
20m abt 15-16h UTC
This is the usual time to work the west.. the stations from
the east in general were not as loud as those from the west.
S8
WA6O K0DU K9NS W4RM W4RRR W6YX KC1XX K4ZW N3RS WA7LT=20
S9
W7WA K3NZ K3LR N3AD K7RL W3LPL K7RI=20
S9+10
W7GG WA2QNW VE6WQ NK7U=20
*****************************************
20m abt 20-22h UTC
As usual, W1-3 and eastern VE's are leading.. exception: VE6WQ again!
S8
VA7OO
S9=20
VY2ZM VE3XN W7GG W8MJ W9RE K3ZO W7WA K7RI WW4LL W8BIN W1QK W0AIH W8UD
S9+10
VE3AT VO1MP KC1XX W3LPL W2GD N3RS N2LT K3WW W4RM K7RL K1RX N3AD W3CF
N9RV VO2WL K9NS VE2AYU
S9+20
VE3EJ VE6WQ K2XA K1KD WA2QNW W2XL=20
****************************************
15m abt 14-15h UTC
KC1XX/K1AR leading.. now that's no big surprise :-)
N7DD had a remarkable signal from Arizona.
S7
W4RM WA1JMP K0VPP W0ZT N1UR=20
S8
K4JA VE3AT K3WW K1IR KC3MR WE2F W8MJ K4BAI=20
S9
VO1TA VE3RM KQ2M K3ZO K3CR KT1V K0TV W9RE K2XA AA1K N4BP K9NS N3RS N7DD
N9RV N4UH WW4R W3PP=20
S9+10
VO1MP VE3EJ VY2ZM KB1H K4VUD W3BGN N3HBX W1AO
S9+20
KC1XX K1AR=20
*****************************************
15M ABT 17-18H UTC
At this time, condx are already decreasing.. so it is expected that
signal strengths are lower.
S6
KC1F NN2W
S7
W2RE K1TTT W2XL NK7U W0BH W7AT N5TW W1QK KV0Q =20
s8
N5JB W9RE K9NS K9NW K0DU W0AIH N2GM W1AW KT4Q N2LT
S9
W3LPL KT0V K1RX N8II N4PN N3HBX=20
*******************************************
10m 0-24h
:-)
Never heard anybody, except a few EA/CT/I/PY.. will be back in 2009..
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:14:29 +0500
From: "Igor Sokolov" <ua9cdc@r66.ru>
To: "Doug Smith W9WI" <w9wi@earthlink.net>,
"cq-contest" <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Elecraft size
Message-ID: <006401c404ed$c7b98140$58000a0a@ua9cdc>
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<1078707333.31714.15.camel@linux3>
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> I'm also impressed with the Orion's firmware. I was getting Don's set
> up for RTTY, and was able to navigate most of the menus without touching
> the owner's manual. During a contest, you should be able to do basic
> things without having to dig through the book.
> --
> Doug Smith W9WI
> Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
Orion being good front end performer got several annoying issues like lack
of CW PTT, lack of choice of baud rate for RS232, underpowered processor
that makes you CW choppy when you adjust DSP BW during TX, poor choice of
tuning rates, clicks in one of the head phones when monitor is engaged in
CW. The radio freezes up during TX and needs reloading from time to time and
the worst thing is that TT is reluctant to deal with these problems claiming
these are "features" and not problems.
73, Igor UA9CDC
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End of CQ-Contest Digest, Vol 15, Issue 11
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