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Re: [CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change

To: kd4d <kd4d@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change
From: "Martin , LU5DX" <lu5dx@lucg.com.ar>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2016 23:14:07 -0300
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
Hello Mark,
I understand your point.
In fact, I also enjoy entering SO without any assistance very much. After
many years of entering assisted, I would say that I enjoy it even more than
when using DX alerting. The thrill of finding mults is bigger and it feels
more rewarding.
You can check CQ WW DX CW of the years 2013 and 2014. I participated from
CE3CT, I even won a beautiful plaque for SOAB HP Southern Cone!
However ,despite what I end up enjoying more these days, and despite the
fact that keeping categories separated make it easier to win a plaque, at
least from these latitudes, I feel that I really don't do any good to our
"sport" by putting my personal likes and convenience before what's best for
our hobby overall.
Scores cannot be compared to make conclusions. The situation is very
simple. DX Assistance is being abused by cheaters, to take an unfair
advantage over their peers and it cannot be detected.
Those cases that are detected belong to silly guys that abuse packet usage
in a big way.
I recall a very close finish between two US stations in SOAB in CQ WW CW a
few years ago. Though I know the integrity of the two ops in questions
nothing can be said about the result. But what if the ops involved in that
very close race were others. You could never tell which was using packet
cluster to grab a few extra tens of mults throughout the weekend at all.

Too bad people cannot realize what's best for the sport.

I'll continue to enter SOAB when I feel like doing so, even if the two
categories are combined and I have no chance to win anything at all.

73,

Martin LU5DX

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 12:11 PM, <kd4d@comcast.net> wrote:

> Good day, Martin:
>
> It makes sense to keep the separation between single operator and single
> operator Assisted/Unlimited because many of us believe the skill involved
> in finding stations to work without having a computer or other operator do
> it for us is worth measuring (and a lot of fun).  The organizers of WRTC,
> for one, agree - look at their rules sometime.
>
> It is not obvious that operators who don't use the DX alerting assistance
> (particularly on CW) will do better than those who do not - THAT is what
> the SOs are complaining about.  We don't want to be forced to use DX
> alerting assistance to compete.  The same operators, using DX alerting
> assistance, will make higher scores than they do without...The CW
> skimmers/RBN have made this particularly obvious for CW operations.
>
> Clearly, combining the categories is all about comparing the highest
> scores for everyone and everyone wishing to be competitive will use DX
> alerting assistance if the categories are combined.  I certainly use it in
> WAE (where there is one category) when I operate that contest.
>
> Why do the advocates of combining the categories - surely they only
> operate Assisted - want to combine the categories anyway?  I understand the
> concerns of the contest organizers, but why do any of the Assisted
> operators care?
>
> 73,
>
> Mark, KD4D
>
> At this point it makes no sense to keep this separation anymore.
>
> In the end, SO will keep doing better than those who use DX alerting
> assistance, so what SOs are complaining about?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LU5DX Martin" <lu5dx@lucg.com.ar>
> To: "Davor Kucelin" <davor.kucelin@plavalaguna.hr>, "cq-contest" <
> cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 11:08:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Convergence and Change
>
> What's your point?
>
> Combining SOAB and SOAB(A) has nothing to do with comparing the highest
> scores in each category.
>
> It's about eliminating  the possibility of taking even a very small unfair
> advantage throughout the 48-hour period that can place a cheater above
> his/her competitors (even if it is very little above in the rankings)
>
> It also has to do with eliminating the burden and work overload that
> implies trying to find those who cheat.
>
> Reality is that ops who cheat have perfected their techniques beyond what
> can be detected by log checkers. Those who get caught year after year are
> those who abuse of DX clusters in a very obvious way.
>
> At this point it makes no sense to keep this separation anymore.
>
> In the end, SO will keep doing better than those who use DX alerting
> assistance, so what SOs are complaining about?
>
> They can even still use a pen and paper logs and send CW with a straight
> key if they want.
>
> Are there still contesters out there entering contests because they think
> they are winning anything at all, or winning over anybody at all??
>
> What in the world would make someone think he/she is winning over someone
> who is thousand of miles away, with totally different equipment,
> propagation and participating according to a bunch of rules that are hardly
> enforceable?t
>
> C'mon guys. It seems like intelligence is inversely proportional to egos
> among certain high profile contesters :-)
>
> Our "competitions" have nothing of real competitions. It is just a game of
> enjoyment, but if we are still going to pretend these are competitions, at
> least we can establish the foundations to make them something a bit more
> trustworthy in those terms.
>
> 73,
>
> Martin LU5DX
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 4:03 AM, Davor Kucelin <
> davor.kucelin@plavalaguna.hr
> > wrote:
>
> > CQWW SSB Top 10 scores all years
> >
> >
> >
> > SOABHP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1             EA8BH  1999      SO HP ALL           25,646,796
> > 10,253   176         692         -              N5TJ
> >
> > 2             CN2R     2004      SO HP ALL           20,938,680
> > 8,655     172         668         -              W7EJ
> >
> > 3             D4B        2004      SO HP ALL           20,433,438
> > 8,799     172         674         -              4L5A
> >
> > 4             D4B        2003      SO HP ALL           20,119,968
> > 8,956     169         634         -              4L5A
> >
> > 5             CN2R     2003      SO HP ALL           18,743,250
> > 8,682     152         594         -              W7EJ
> >
> > 6             HC8A     1999      SO HP ALL           18,607,050
> > 8,638     175         595         -              N6KT
> >
> > 7             CN2R     2011      SO HP ALL           18,518,160
> > 8,409     167         593         44.7       W7EJ
> >
> > 8             CN2R     2013      SO HP ALL           18,277,746
> > 8,370     167         579         46.9       W7EJ     [Cert]
> >
> > 9             HC8A     2000      SO HP ALL           18,122,040
> > 9,160     163         547         -              N6KT
> >
> > 10           8P5A     2013      SO HP ALL           17,059,840
> > 10,126   162         518         48.0       W2SC
> >
> >
> >
> > SOAB ASSISTED HP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1             9Y4ZC    2003      SA HP ALL           14,979,055
> > 8,114     137         500         -              DL6FBL
> >
> > 2             P40A     2011      SA HP ALL           14,332,656
> > 7,478     156         513         43.5       KK9A
> >
> > 3             TM6M  2015      SA HP ALL           14,263,470
> > 7,057     168         667         47.9       F8DBF   [Cert]
> >
> > 4             P40P      2002      SA HP ALL           12,975,732
> > 6,639     154         528         -              W5AJ
> >
> > 5             EF8U     2013      SA HP ALL           12,743,163
> > 6,656     154         533         45.0       EA8RM [Cert]
> >
> > 6             NN3W  2011      SA HP ALL           11,828,236
> > 4,921     185         683         44.7       @N3HBX
> >
> > 7             OH0X    2015      SA HP ALL           11,790,240
> > 6,294     174         706         48.0       OH6KZP               [Cert]
> >
> > 8             P40W    2003      SA HP ALL           11,755,443
> > 6,730     137         496         -              W2GD
> >
> > 9             D4B        2002      SA HP ALL           11,567,412
> > 5,845     152         586         -              4L5A
> >
> >
> >
> > CQWW CW Top 10 scores all years
> >
> >
> >
> > SOABHP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1             EA8BH  2000      SO HP ALL           18,010,765
> > 7,555     183         634         -              N5TJ
> >
> > 2             ZF2MJ   2015      SO HP ALL           16,730,788
> > 10,014   170         527         48.0       N6MJ    [Cert]
> >
> > 3             CR3OO 2015      SO HP ALL           16,090,078
> > 8,812     152         474         48.0       CT1BOH               [Cert]
> >
> > 4             P40E      2003      SO HP ALL           15,943,070
> > 7,828     169         546         -              CT1BOH
> >
> > 5             EF8M    2011      SO HP ALL           15,846,012
> > 7,873     160         531         48.0       RD3A
> >
> > 6             PZ5T      2011      SO HP ALL           15,673,940
> > 7,592     173         545         47.4       VE3DZ
> >
> > 7             CR3E      2012      SO HP ALL           15,221,316
> > 7,275     170         556         48.0       CT1BOH               [Cert]
> >
> > 8             CR3E      2011      SO HP ALL           15,151,668
> > 7,212     168         564         48.0       CT1BOH
> >
> > 9             EF8M    2010      SO HP ALL           15,117,795
> > 7,598     158         535         47.8       RD3A
> >
> > 10           HC8N    1999      SO HP ALL           14,626,579
> > 7,001     185         546         -              N5KO
> >
> >
> >
> > SOAB ASSISTED HP
> >
> >
> >
> > 1             9Y4ZC    2004      SA HP ALL           14,581,665
> > 6,576     169         596         -              DL6FBL
> >
> > 2             5B/AA1TN          2004      SA HP ALL           13,715,573
> > 6,381     170         627         -              RW3QC
> >
> > 3             EF9O     2013      SA HP ALL           13,530,554
> > 5,826     171         623         46.6       EA5BM [Cert]
> >
> > 4             K5ZD/1 2014      SA HP ALL           12,768,365
> > 4,993     190         697         44.3                      [Cert]
> >
> > 5             EF8U     2013      SA HP ALL           11,955,126
> > 5,700     169         602         44.2       EA8RM [Cert]
> >
> > 6             CN3A    2010      SA HP ALL           11,818,159
> > 5,729     156         577         46.4
> >
> > 7             NP4Z     2013      SA HP ALL           11,341,512
> > 6,059     165         591         46.9
> >
> > 8             K5ZD/1 2015      SA HP ALL           11,275,488
> > 4,742     179         654         44.9                      [Cert]
> >
> > 9             CT9M    2002      SA HP ALL           11,225,452
> > 5,181     159         605         -              DL2CC
> >
> > 10           P40C      2014      SA HP ALL           11,085,536
> > 6,242     154         462         44.8       KU1CW
> >
> >
> >
> > So what are we talking about?
> >
> > Best Assisted score is way below 10th unassisted score.
> >
> > What are you than scared about to combine the 2 categorys.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 73 Dave 9A1UN
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
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