I fully agree with your statement Ron. I do not defend RDXC acting I just
want our discussion to turm into what can be done to stop power cheating.
73, Igor UA9CDC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Notarius W3WN" <wn3vaw@verizon.net>
To: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power
Igor,
With all due respect, IMHO, fighting alleged "cheating" by not contacting
the accused, asking him for his side of the story, and worse, simply flat
out telling him he's a cheater with no allowance for other variables or
giving him any option to plead his case or appeal... is as bad or even
worse than someone turning their amp on and claiming that they didn't.
To put it bluntly: If you're going to accuse someone of as serious an
ethical lapse as cheating, you have to give than an opportunity to defend
themselves. You can't be judge, jury and executioner.
And yes, I speak from experience. I once did just that in a local contest
I was involved in, many years ago. While I don't believe, then or now,
that I was wrong, I did get my fingers singed for not giving the alleged
perpetrator an opportunity to explain himself. It was embarrassing to say
the least, but I have no one to blame for my error (in how I handled the
situation) than myself.
So in this case, I do not say that the RDXC committee is wrong... or is
right. I do say that before reclassifying or disqualifying a log entry,
they at least owe the alleged a chance to explain or defend himself.
73, ron w3wn
On 10/05/16, Igor Sokolov wrote:
Hi Kelly,
I am not arguing with every acknowledged expert on this forum. I am just
trying to summon these experts to suggest the method of fighting power
cheating. Are there tools other then RBN to hunt cheaters? Can RBN be used
in conjunction with other tools (whatever) to get reliable results? If
there
are no methods of control then why do we have power categories that lend
themselves for cheating?
Do we want to fight power cheating or do we want to let cheaters carry on?
These are more important questions in my opinion then whether or not some
contest sponsor were unfair to some participants.
BTW P3F was not the only one who was reclassified to higher power
category.
I am not suggesting we use HIS case. I am suggesting we use this
opportunity
to discuss how power cheating can be dealt with.
You say "To establish RBN analysis as a reliable means of determining
power
cheating — were it even possible — would require extensive, controlled
experimentation" which I read - "we do not have reliable means of
determining power cheating yet". Does it mean we give up and let it
blossom?
73, Igor UA9CDC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt@mymts.net>
To: "Igor Sokolov" <ua9cdc@gmail.com>
Cc: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power
Hi Igor,
As every acknowledged expert on this forum has pointed out, so many
variables contribute to differences in signal strength that pinpointing a
power difference as the sole cause, based only on simplistic RBN analysis,
is absurd.
Using an absurd approach in the absence of one that isn’t is beyond
ludicrous. It is patently unfair.
That the RDXC won’t respond, that it apparently moved the goalposts every
time it was challenged (from constant power cheating on all bands to
cheating only on some bands to cheating only on some bands for periods
here
and there) certainly suggests there’s more to this than a simple
misunderstanding of data.
It’s like the Salem witch hunt, where officials would drown suspected
witches: if you lived, you were a witch. If you died, congratulations, you
weren’t a witch, but sorry about that whole ‘death' thing.
To use P3F as a test case is as absurd as the drowning test. To establish
RBN analysis as a reliable means of determining power cheating — were it
even possible — would require extensive, controlled experimentation, not
the
persecution of one amateur.
73, kelly, ve4xt
On Oct 5, 2016, at 11:12 AM, Igor Sokolov <ua9cdc@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,
I am saying that we should treat this case as a possibility to work out
universally accepted methods of pinpointing power violators. That is if
we
want to keep power categories separate. And that is if we want to stop
proliferation of cheating. RDXC made an attempt. Some people found their
approach to be incorrect but nobody yet suggested no alternative.
73, Igor UA9CDC
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Taylor" <ve4xt@mymts.net>
To: "Igor Sokolov" <ua9cdc@gmail.com>
Cc: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2016 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] RDXC Entry Reclassified to High Power
Igor,
Are you saying that just because we have not come up with a proven means
to determine power cheating, we should merely accept the results of an
irrefutably flawed analysis?
Even the chief promoter and grand poobah of RBN technology has stated
using RBN analysis to determine power cheating is absurd.
73, kelly, ve4xt
On Oct 5, 2016, at 8:51 AM, Igor Sokolov <ua9cdc@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not going to be on any side of the argument. But we all know that
power cheating exists and proliferates. It has become especially acute
after the introduction of the new WRTC selection rules which allowed LP
category compete against HP for the slot in WRTC.
IMHO RDXC should be commended for pioneering the battle against power
violations even though their attempt is not fully approved by some.
RDXC can be criticized for their approach but can critics offer other
reliable methods of fishing out power violators. I do not think that a
100% reliable method exists.
Does it mean that contest community should not pay attention to power
violations? I do not think so. Otherwise, why have different power
categories in the rules when these rules cannot be enforced.
The simple solution would be to drop separation by power and have all
the
participants compete in one power category. But would such a radical
step be to the benefit of the contest community? Would it increase
participation? I think not.
Then why don't we as a community use this precedent and try to find a
solution? Let's work out methods of verification of power cheating that
would be acceptable by a majority of the participants. This will be to
the benefit of all the contest sponsors where power categories exist.
Disclaimer: I have no relation to RDXC committee and not competing for
slot in WRTC. I just like the art contesting and want make better.
73, Igor UA9CDC
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