Bob, I'm not totally clear, but I think you're arguing that this change
will remedy concerns about the unfairness of having an RBN for CW and
RTTY, but not for phone. I agree it would be nice to have more spots on
phone, and when I operate on phone I always activate N1MM's automatic
spotting capability, but until Fort Meade declassifies their voice
Skimmer (joke), I don't see any benefit in allowing self-spotting on
*both* phone and CW.
A critical difference between the RBN and self-spotting is that the RBN
is absolutely impartial - if you're received by an RBN node, you're
spotted worldwide. Allowing self-spotting in phone will not do anything
comparable - instead, as others have suggested, it will simply reward
the investment of money and effort in off-the-air technology, and he who
advertises best will win. Do we want that?
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
On 2/17/2022 11:16 AM, Naumann, Robert, W5OV wrote:
Pete,
All of the negative and nefarious things like "malicious spotting" you are envisioning
could and may be happening today. Recently, the CQWW reported that they had resolved a
"spoofed spots" problem that occurred recently. I see no reason to think that this change
will lead to any more of that than we already have to deal with.
Sorting through all of the global spotting data available is an enormous task.
The contest sponsors are heavily burdened by all of this. If you would read
the CAC's report, you'd see that they recognized this burden and how difficult
it would be to split hairs over what is and what is not allowed given the
proliferation of all these non-amateur based, continual, perpetual and
ubiquitous channels of communication. Turn off my phone? Are you serious?
A few years back, there were nearly 100 disqualifications in a major fall
contest for various reasons including: self-spotting!
The discussion at that time centered around how unfair that is because of the
automatic spotting on CW and RTTY. Who would it hurt anyway?
That mode differential is going away. I don't think it's going to make a great
deal of difference, but those who have been self-spotting (i.e. cheating) for
years will now have fair competition in that game. Perhaps, this will become a
complete non-issue as a result rather than the end of contesting as we know it?
As opined from some of the more recent generation of contesters, this is
probably inevitable, and I don't think this signals the end of contesting any
more than packet did, despite the clamor we all heard back then - 30+ years
ago!!! Clearly, contesting has survived that change, and it will survive this
one too.
73,
Bob W5OV
-----Original Message-----
From: CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+w5ov=arrl.org@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
Pete Smith N4ZR
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2022 09:27
To: Jairam, Ria, N2RJ (Dir, HD)<rjairam@gmail.com>
Cc: reflector cq-contest<CQ-Contest@Contesting.COM>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
Ria, I'm not frustrated... I am simply concerned that allowing self-spotting will
make it much less pleasant for me to pursue my personal goals. If everyone and
their sibling self spots, that will markedly reduce my chances as of being first on
a spot when someone comes on a new band, which is my go-to technique. What's to stop
them from self-spotting their intended run frequency *before* they come on a new
band?
Also, as someone pointed out, the potential for malicious spotting is great.
If I want to sabotage your operation, what's to stop me from posting spots of you on
the wrong band or frequency?
I simply think this was not well thought out, and that the result would have
been different (and better) had the wider contesting community been more
involved.
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server
at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
On 2/17/2022 5:46 AM,rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
It really isn’t the “nobody asked us” defense. Quite the opposite.
There were several in the contest community who wanted contest rules
out of the hands of the full Board and into the hands of the CAC and
radiosport department. It doesn’t mean we don’t have input. It simply
means that we don’t have a formal vote on every contest rule change.
As for smaller S&P stations? I’m not sure what changes for you. Care
to elaborate?
I think a lot of us with smaller stations share frustrations of not
being able to be competitive, for various reasons.
Ria
N2RJ
On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 1:05 AM Pete Smith N4ZR<pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
wrote:
But Ria, what about those of us with small stations who like assisted
S&P? Surely there should be room for those of us who don't want to
self-spot, but find unassisted S&P endless frustration. I'm with
you -
surely it would have been better to add a class.
As for the Board not having voted on these new rules, why the heck
not?
Surely this isn't the "nobody asked us" defense? If the Board aren't
responsible for what people subordinate to you do, who is?
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
On 2/16/2022 9:11 PM,rjairam@gmail.com wrote:
> Hans, things progressed exactly as some of the harshest critics
desired it
> to go.
>
> But anyway, everything is in the minutes. There were no motions
by the
> Board to adopt these rules.
>
> Do I agree with them? My desire was for an “ultra unlimited”
category to
> have streaming and self spotting. I didn’t get that. I’m one voice.
>
> Do we need to adapt and evolve? Yes.
>
> But I’m glad we kept unassisted, so those who desire legacy
contesting have
> their sandbox to play in.
>
> Ria
> N2RJ
>
> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 8:53 PM Hans Brakob<kzerohb@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Nice sidestep, Director.
>>
>> 73, de Hans, KØHB
>> “Just a Boy and his Radio”™
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:*
CQ-Contest<cq-contest-bounces+kzerohb=gmail.com@contesting.com>
>> on behalfofrjairam@gmail.com <rjairam@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 16, 2022 7:24:37 PM
>>
>> *To:* Ken Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com>
>> *Cc:* Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com>; CQ-Contest Reflector <
>>cq-contest@contesting.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] ARRL to allow self-spotting in contests
>>
>> The full Board does not make a motion to adopt rules changes
anymore.
>> This goes direct from the PSC to the radiosport department.
There is a
>> PSC report that is adopted (in the consent agenda) but that's about
>> it. Also, the CAC is actually driving these rule changes now
with the
>> PSC merely approving their recommendations.
>>
>> Ria
>> N2RJ
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 4:43 PM Ken
Boasi<n2zn@rochester.rr.com> wrote:
>>> I’m not an ARRL apologist, but the CAC has been discussing
this since at
>> least a year ago, and made a recommendation for this change in
their July
>> meeting. You can look up the minutes on the ARRL website. It
is task
>> 2020.5.
>>> I presume it was adopted in January at the ARRL Board meeting.
>>>
>>> I am not in favor of the change, but I guess I had my chance
to comment
>> on this (like the rest of us) over the past year, and failed to
do so,
>> either because I wasn’t paying attention, forgot to, or just
assumed that
>> “they would never do something like that”. Lesson learned…
>>> 73, Ken N2ZN
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 16, 2022, at 3:35 PM, Barry W2UP<w2up.co@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So which contest software will be the first to add,
"self-spot every
>> 15
>>>> seconds"?
>>>>
>>>> Seems ARRL is back on its secrecy kick. I just renewed my ARRL
>> membership
>>>> for the 52nd year. It may be my last.
>>>>
>>>> Barry W2UP
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 16, 2022 at 10:36 AM
PY2NY<py2ny.vitor@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good afternoon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know exactly what to say or think about. My first
impression
>>>>> isn't good, including for those guys that are always "Assisted".
>>>>> DXCluster will have thousands of self-spots.
>>>>> Thanks God I'm always "no-Assisted"...
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 DX and see you all next weekend.
>>>>> .
>>>>> ..
>>>>> ...
>>>>> --------------------------------
>>>>> PY2NY / SP9NY / V26NY - Vitor Luis Aidar dos Santos
>>>>>http://military-jeep-brasil.blogspot.com.br/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Em qua., 16 de fev. de 2022 às 09:23, Randy Thompson <
>>k5zd@outlook.com>
>>>>> escreveu:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From the ARRL Contest Update today:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "New Rules in effect for all ARRL HF Contests in June
>>>>>> Starting with the ARRL International Digital Contest, in all
>> categories
>>>>>> that allow assistance (Unlimited), the use of online and other
>>>>> non-amateur
>>>>>> radio platforms including but not limited to social media,
live video
>>>>>> streaming, and internet chat rooms will be allowed. In all
Unlimited
>> and
>>>>>> Multioperator categories, the prohibition of self-spotting, and
>> asking
>>>>>> another station to spot you, will also be removed."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wow. It was one thing for the VHF contests to allow use of
chat
>> rooms
>>>>> and
>>>>>> telephone calls, now this is extended to all HF contests.
It should
>> be
>>>>>> interesting to see what unintended consequences result from
allowing
>>>>>> multi-ops and assisted competitors to spot themselves. You
could spot
>>>>>> yourself with every CQ if you wanted to. Or you can call
people on
>> the
>>>>>> phone and ask them to get on the air. Or send out email
reminders to
>> work
>>>>>> you during the contest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is likely to have the most impact on SSB to produce spotting
>> equal to
>>>>>> what the RBN does for CW and RTTY.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For an organization that has always been so timid and
conservative on
>>>>> rule
>>>>>> changes, the ARRL seems to have sprung this one without much
>> consultation
>>>>>> with the contest community. I assume it is in reaction to
the W2RE
>>>>>> incident several years ago in ARRL DX where he used live
streaming on
>>>>>> Facebook during the contest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy K5ZD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>>>CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>>>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CQ-Contest mailing list
>>>>>CQ-Contest@contesting.com
>>>>>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>>>>>
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