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Re: [RFI] Microwave RFI - radiated (?)

To: dgsvetan@rockwellcollins.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Microwave RFI - radiated (?)
From: Donald Kerns <dkerns@cruzio.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 13:59:59 -0700
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
OK, after many travails finding the proper bits, I opened the case up.

While there was some grease/dust combo blocking the ventilation holes 
there was none in the interior of the oven.

I spent about 10 minutes poring over the innards and did not find 
anything obviously broken/burnt/crisp/wrong.

So... wife gets a new microwave. And I have a nifty new set of bits to 
add to the collection.

Thanks all!

73 de Donald
AE6RF

dgsvetan@rockwellcollins.com wrote:
> Donald,
>
> Thanks for the sound file.  The interference definitely has a 60 Hz 
> component to it.  (That's the raspy buzz from when the oven is on.  I 
> agree that you do have a lot of other noise as well.)
>
> Since the problem is originating at relatively low frequencies, my guess 
> is the following:
>
> 1.  The oven is old enough that I truly believe it has a conventional 
> power supply using an el-cheapo HV iron and copper transformer.
>
> 2.  The AC buzz on the noise leads me to believe that any one or more of 
> the following could be the cause of the noise:
>
> - Arcing within said el-cheapo transformer
>
> - Arcing within the HV rectifier
>
> - Bad or non-existing nosie filter at the power control relay that is used 
> to control the HV.  They may have used a "real" electro-mechanical relay, 
> or they may have used a solid state relay, which is actually a triac or 
> back-to-back SCRs.  If the solid state relay does not have a filter 
> network on the line input side, it is likely that spikes from the small, 
> but definable "Off" portion of each 1/2 line cycle are radiating their way 
> all over the place.  Maybe there was a filter there to begin with and it 
> is now history.  If the actual cause is due to arcing, either the 
> defective part needs to be replaced or, in the case of solid state relays, 
> a filter added (or replaced) right at the input terminals of the device.
>
> Note that I did not include the magnetron itself in the above list. 
> Presumably, the maggie is fed with HV DC, so it should not have an AC line 
> frequency component.  On the other hand, if the HV rectifier is bad, it is 
> possible that there could be raw AC on the maggie, and that's not good. 
> (As I understand it, early microwave ovens did not have HV rectifiers. 
> Since magnetrons ARE a diode, the thinking was that they could operate as 
> self-rectifiers.  That thinking changed when it was realized that the 
> stresses of PRV from direct line operation were causing a lot of tube 
> failures.  Hence, enter the HV rectifier block to save the maggies.)
>
> In any event, since the unit is many moons old, I'd open it up and take a 
> look (with AC power cord disconnected, of course).  Look for any signs of 
> something burnt or charred.
>
> Good luck.
>
> 73, Dale
> WA9ENA
>
>  
>
>
>
> Donald Kerns <dkerns@cruzio.com> 
> Sent by: rfi-bounces@contesting.com
> 05/09/2008 12:55 AM
>
> To
> rfi@contesting.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [RFI] Microwave RFI - radiated (?)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> rfi-request@contesting.com wrote:
>   
>> Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 16:31:30 -0700
>> From: "Jim Brown" <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Microwave RFI - radiated (?)
>>
>>
>> Try more toroids in the stack and use close-wound turns to lower 
>> the resonant frequency, using the data for coax of similar size as 
>> a guide. If that helps, it's being radiated by the power cord, If 
>> it doesn't, it's probably being radiated by internal wiring. 
>>
>>     
> OK, four (4) turns of the power cord around four (4) of the toroids 
> doesn't touch the noise.
>
> That sort of says radiated rather than conducted to me.
>
> The microwave was a wedding present, so it is at least (counts on 
> fingers and toes) 13 years old.
>
> I've put a recording up at http://www.kernsanalysis.com/ham/microwave.wav
>
> 7.131 MHz, AM mode 9.0 KHz filter  (note how noisy my location is even 
> without the microwave...)
>   

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