Hello to the group;
I have followed your group for quite some time, and have used the tips I
have picked up, some were very good, some frustrating, but mostly very
good, in solving many problems.
In this instance, Dale k9vuj is right on point.
There are strict regulations that are designed to eliminate RFI, and they
apply to the manufacturer as well as the owner of any commercial product
As a former (now retired) manufacture I know where of I speak, I have had
to comply with those regulations or pay a LARGE fine and/ or have my
product seized and destroyed.
That is one of the reasons that there is very little manufacturing ( and so
few jobs) in the United States,
To produce a product in the United States a manufacturer must comply with
Trade mark, FCC regulation's,,ever changing workman's compensation as well
as the minutia of State and Federal Health and safety regulations.
The cost to simply comply with the paper work required is horrendous,
Today, even small manufactures are almost forced to out source their
product and simply put a pre-assembled Chinese board in a housing made in
Honduras and add some stickers to say made in the USA. Manufacturers have
been led to believe that by off shoring they are exempt from those and many
other health and safety regulations. to a certain extent they are right, at
least their costs are greatly reduced.
HOWEVER, While Importing Manufactures are exempt from workman's
compensation, as well as many of the health and welfare regulations, they
are not now and never have been exempt from FCC or trade mark regulations.
ANY product imported into the United States MUST be compliant with ALL
applicable Federal regulations.
The onus of proving compliance falls on the MANUFACTURER not any
governmental agency. Every day US customs agent seize or reject thousands
of items because of Trademark or technical violations that the manufacturer
are required to correct. Many Manufactures, especially those whose home
offices are outside the United States simply FAKE test results to receive
an import certificate, those seized are required to be tested in federal
approved laboratories and if found non-compliant must be either either
reworked by the manufacturer or destroyed
Without the complaints you send in those cheats would never be found out.
When you do not complain about a shoddy or poorly made product you are
condoning poor design practices and possible allowing unsafe equipment to
be brought into the United States.
That is the reason why you MUST complain when you find a product that
produces excessive RFI, The report generated by your complain was designed
into and is necessary for import law to function. You, and the complaint
you send in, are a necessary and vital part of import law enforcement.
Yes, your neighbor may not like having to buy a new, possibly very
expensive, widget
Yes, If many people send in RFI reports The FCC may be forced to do it's
job and that may mean adding more agents now, but in the long run they will
actually need fewer agents.
Consider this, in 1940 The FCC had 1800 agents mostly involved with
communications violations, Today there are less than a thousand agents with
about 400 involved with Licensing and communications violations. As far as
I can tell, there are less than 100 involved with RFI and import violations.
The reduction in agents involved with amateur violations occurred because
we became self policing. We became self policing for a very good reason,
fines were stiff, and amateur operators could and did lose their licenses.
Self interest forced us (amateur radio) to eliminate the troublemakers and
become self policing, Manufacturing standards groups are moving in the
same direction, for the same reason, $10,000 fines per day tend to get a
manufacturers attention and those that lose their import certificate are
out of business. Simple financial interests will in the long run force the
cheats out of business
But that will not happen if you don't do your job and complain... after all
the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and we as radio amateurs have more
reason to "squeak"than
almost any other group.
Daniel Donnelly KC7VDA
On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 8:38 AM, <rfi-request@contesting.com> wrote:
> Send RFI mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: [TowerTalk] Back of desk grounding buss (Gary Smith)
> 2. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Roger D Johnson)
> 3. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Dale J.)
> 4. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Kim Elmore)
> 5. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Dale J.)
> 6. Re: ARRL to FCC... (David Cole)
> 7. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Bruce)
> 8. Re: ARRL to FCC... (Kenneth G. Gordon)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 06:23:40 -0700
> From: Gary Smith <wa6fgi@yahoo.com>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] [TowerTalk] Back of desk grounding buss
> Message-ID: <532C3D5C.7080507@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> That's what I have in my shack. It is bolted to the underside of the
> desk, radio, amp and so forth are attached parallel to it the outside to
> a 8 foot long ground rod.
>
> How to drive a ground rod? Get short 1/2 inch id pipe nipple about 4
> inches long and screw a a pipe cap in one end.
>
> With a helper to hold the rod vertical, get on ladder where you want the
> ground rod to go.
>
> Slip the pipe nipple over the grounding rod, hammer on the pipe cap.
> This way you won't damage the rod.
> Don't forget to get what's called a "Kearney clamp" to attach some old
> coax, (tie both inner and outer shield together) from the buss bar to
> the ground rod.
>
> Its surprising how installing what I call "the rest of the ham shack
> install" helps.
>
> Pardon my wandering but ... just in case, now lall on the list know how
> I have cured bugs in other ham's shacks.
>
> Gary...wa6fgi
>
>
> On 3/20/2014 11:15 AM, Chris wrote:
> > These work pretty good, look nice too:
> >
> > http://www.kf7p.com/KF7P/CoaxBus.html
> >
> > Chris
> > KF7P
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mar 20, 2014, at 11:53 AM, Charlie Gallo wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Gang,
> >> Sort of antenna, sort of RFI, more safety..
> >>
> >> I've decided my back of desk grounding situation needs to be improved
> >>
> >> Now, we all know the standard is a nice, thick copper buss. Question
> is, how thick? - this will then be run down to the panel/ground rod
> >>
> >> Is Brass/Aluminum/Copper PIPE a valid alternative? If aluminium,
> again, how large (I normally have round up to about 3" diameter sitting in
> the shop, as well an AL plate (various sizes, 3/16 thick up to 6" wide is
> everyday, and I have angle up to 5" wide legs, 1/4" thick around, and
> blocks up to 2" thick and 4" wide hanging around
> >>
> >> I intend to silver braze most of my connections, but obviously that
> won't work to an Al plate, That I'd drill, tap, and either use studs with
> nuts, or screws
> >>
> >> Again, we aren't talking the wall pass through here, but the buss at
> the back of the desk
> >>
> >> --
> >> 73 de KG2V - Charles Gallo
> >> Quality Custom Machine-shop work for the radio amateur (sm)
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TowerTalk mailing list
> >> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:44:52 -0400
> From: Roger D Johnson <n1rj@roadrunner.com>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <532C4254.5010905@roadrunner.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It was Congress that caused this problem by gutting the FCC and only
> Congress
> can cure it.
> I think it will be more productive complaining to our Congresspeople than
> to an
> impotent FCC.
>
> 73, Roger N1RJ
>
>
> On 3/21/2014 9:06 AM, Kim Elmore wrote:
> > How is this viewpoint helping to solve your RFI problems?
> >
> > Oh, and how much are you willing to pay to beef up the FCC's Enforcement
> division to chase down and eradicate every one of these RFI sources, since,
> as you point out, that's not *your* job?
> >
> > Kim N5OP
> >
> > "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as
> the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:53:35 -0500
> From: "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net>
> To: "rfi@contesting.com Reflector" <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <065211AC-3FB7-4727-B372-C93AC2D511C7@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I think you all are missing the point.
>
> The idea is to be proactive and stop the junk from ever hitting the
> shelves in the first place. True, it's too late for the junk that's
> already out there, If you want to go to war with your neighbors, fine,
> complain and hope for the best, but your neighbors I don't believe will
> take kindly to the FCC letter stating their TV is illegal and interfering
> with a ham radio operator therefore must be shut down or risk a $10000 fine.
>
> Dale, k9vuj
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:19:12 -0500
> From: Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "rfi@contesting.com Reflector" <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <1AFAFFBF-EB99-4F48-8614-6239127490D6@sbcglobal.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I'll ask again: How does this help you solve your RFI problem? This may
> help vent your spleen, but I don't understand how this helps solve your
> immediate problem. I await enlightenment.
>
> Kim N5OP
>
> "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as
> the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
>
> > On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:53, "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > I think you all are missing the point.
> >
> > The idea is to be proactive and stop the junk from ever hitting the
> shelves in the first place. True, it's too late for the junk that's
> already out there, If you want to go to war with your neighbors, fine,
> complain and hope for the best, but your neighbors I don't believe will
> take kindly to the FCC letter stating their TV is illegal and interfering
> with a ham radio operator therefore must be shut down or risk a $10000 fine.
> >
> > Dale, k9vuj
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 09:37:07 -0500
> From: "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net>
> To: "rfi@contesting.com Reflector" <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <ABCA343D-BAF5-4355-8300-3F1AFA943437@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Well Kim, the short answer is, I'm not willing to go to war with my next
> door neighbor.
>
> Sure, I could complain to the FCC and may or may not get relief, but I'd
> still have to live next door to my neighbors. That's why I would like to
> see better oversight of potential RFI generators being sold to the general
> public. The ultimate burden should, must be placed on the manufacturer of
> the errant product, not on the end user or me.
>
> Dale, k9vuj
>
>
> On 21, Mar 2014, at 9:19, Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > I'll ask again: How does this help you solve your RFI problem? This may
> help vent your spleen, but I don't understand how this helps solve your
> immediate problem. I await enlightenment.
> >
> > Kim N5OP
> >
> > "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as
> the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
> >
> >> On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:53, "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think you all are missing the point.
> >>
> >> The idea is to be proactive and stop the junk from ever hitting the
> shelves in the first place. True, it's too late for the junk that's
> already out there, If you want to go to war with your neighbors, fine,
> complain and hope for the best, but your neighbors I don't believe will
> take kindly to the FCC letter stating their TV is illegal and interfering
> with a ham radio operator therefore must be shut down or risk a $10000 fine.
> >>
> >> Dale, k9vuj
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> RFI mailing list
> >> RFI@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 07:52:20 -0700
> From: David Cole <dave@nk7z.net>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <1395413540.6779.63.camel@nostromo.NK7Z>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi Dale,
>
> I actually don't care if the neighbor takes kindly or not to his
> $1000.00 plasma TV messing up my $2000.00 radio... I have no intention
> of becoming so politically correct as to lose my hobby for want of
> ticking someone off. Let the neighbor worry about ticking me off...
> After all, it is not me spraying RFI everywhere.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I will bend over backwards working with someone who
> is attempting to help, I will even buy replacement items, (not TV's),
> but if they take the attitude that it is just too bad, and won't work
> with me, then I have no recourse but to involve the FCC, or lose my
> hobby.
>
> I had a neighbor who installed two of those xenon lamps using Chinese
> switchers, 40 watters... Wiped out my radio totally, and three other
> hams radios as well around the area.. He decided he did not need to do
> anything about it, and it was just too bad for us... I tried to be
> nice, I tried to be sweet, I even offered to buy new lights, he just
> decided that he was not going to do anything about them... A note from
> that FCC ended that instantly...
>
> Turns out he had enclosed two wall warts in sheet rock cavities, and did
> not want to spend the money to dig them out of some enclosed space he
> had built them into... Don't ask me how or why he did that, but that
> was the reason given... In any case within 30 days my radio was back to
> working again...
>
> If we are to keep our bands clean, we all must start reporting this sort
> of thing to the FCC and the ARRL every time...
>
> Look at the results, some folks reported Grow lights as an issue to the
> ARRL, and the ARRL did testing, and then damned near demanded that the
> FCC get this item removed...
>
> As of this morning, neither Sears, or whoever the distributer was in CA
> has them on their websites, I know the fellow in CA did, and now it is
> gone... THIS IS POSITIVE ACTION, and it helps every one of us.
>
> So... If you have an RFI problem, report it, use your rights to enjoy
> your radio-- clear of RFI...
>
> Report RFI when it is a problem for you. Don't report RFI if it is not
> an issue, but if it is bothering you, report it!
>
> Please... You are not only helping yourself, you are helping every ham
> in your general area.
>
>
> --
> Thanks and 73's,
> For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
> www.nk7z.net
> for MixW support see;
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
> for Dopplergram information see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
> for MM-SSTV see:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info
>
>
> On Fri, 2014-03-21 at 09:19 -0500, Kim Elmore wrote:
> > I'll ask again: How does this help you solve your RFI problem? This may
> help vent your spleen, but I don't understand how this helps solve your
> immediate problem. I await enlightenment.
> >
> > Kim N5OP
> >
> > "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least as long as
> the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
> >
> > > On Mar 21, 2014, at 8:53, "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think you all are missing the point.
> > >
> > > The idea is to be proactive and stop the junk from ever hitting the
> shelves in the first place. True, it's too late for the junk that's
> already out there, If you want to go to war with your neighbors, fine,
> complain and hope for the best, but your neighbors I don't believe will
> take kindly to the FCC letter stating their TV is illegal and interfering
> with a ham radio operator therefore must be shut down or risk a $10000 fine.
> > >
> > > Dale, k9vuj
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RFI mailing list
> > > RFI@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 23:05:37 -0400
> From: "Bruce" <k1fz@myfairpoint.net>
> To: "Dale J." <dj2001x@comcast.net>, <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <5908D09CE5A64BD2A97E697EF4A31869@k1fzPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Good point Dale.
>
> Does a JR operator plug the hole in his marble bag, then pick up the ones
> that escaped, or does he let the bag empty out and then start picking them
> up ?. Hmmm
>
> Reducing the size of government and oversight is part of the problem, not
> the solution.
>
> 73
> Bruce-K1FZ
> www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html
>
>
>
>
> The problem TV's should have never made it to store shelves. Ditto for
> junk
> dimmers, wall wort PS, grow lights etc, etc. I know, I know, radiation
> limits, Part 15 blah, blah, the law should have been changed years ago, but
> sat back and allowed this stuff to be put on the shelves, and it's not all
> imported either.
> Dale, k9vuj
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:38:36 -0700
> From: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <kgordon2006@frontier.com>
> To: David Cole <dave@nk7z.net>
> Cc: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] ARRL to FCC...
> Message-ID: <532C5CFC.143.3CA4BD6F@kgordon2006.frontier.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On 21 Mar 2014 at 7:52, David Cole wrote:
>
> > decided that he was not going to do anything about them... A note from
> > that FCC ended that instantly...
>
> What, exactly, did you have to tell the FCC to get them to notifiy this
> ass?
> Did you have to DF the problem yourself, or did you simply have to tell the
> FCC that "someone" was seriously interfering with your operation?
>
> What?
>
> I need to know.
>
> SOMEONE, or SOMEthing, in my neighborhood is doing SOMEthing that
> results in a 20db over S-9 constant noise level on (at least) 80 meters.
>
> I am also confirming that every damned piece of Chinese-made or
> Chinese-designed electronic whatever is so damned "noisy" RF-wise that it
> shouldn't be allowed out of China.
>
> Ken Gordon W7EKB
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of RFI Digest, Vol 134, Issue 12
> ************************************
>
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