Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 15:32:36 -0500
From: "Lloyd - N9LB" <lloydberg@tds.net>
To: "'Hare, Ed W1RFI'" <w1rfi@arrl.org>, <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
Message-ID: <000d01d623e5$7b020060$71060120$@tds.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Would alerting Underwriters Laboratories "UL" have any value?
-----Original Message-----
From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces+lloydberg=tds.net@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Hare, Ed W1RFI
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2020 12:08 PM
To: Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net>; rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
I do know that Paul Cianciolo has worked with a few hams on this issue. I am
not sure if he made any headway on it with Samsung, but I will see him later
this week and I can ask. He reads most of the posts here, but doesn't have
time to respond to all of them.
I am not a lawyer either, but from an FCC perspective, hams are responsible
only for interferece caused by spurious emissions and out-of-band emissions
from their transmitters. That's not to say that a neighbor would not
initiate a lawsuit. On the ARRL web page can be found information on
federal pre-emption of state and local RFI issues, which could incude civil
suit, but the nuances of law are such that a ham involved in that kind of
dispute is going to need an attorney.
Under US law, there are no federal requirements for immunity, so the
manufacturer is off the fedreal hook from an FCC perspective. There may be
other federal requirements for appliance safety, though. Either way, they,
too, would be on the hook for possible civil action should a fire result
from the use of their product under any circumstances although federal
pre-emption could apply there too. Again, more work for the attornies.
I do know that when Eaton was made aware that some of their AFCI breakers
were tripping due to RF, they were very interested and put two engineeers on
a plane from the west coast to witness ARRL's testing. We accomodated them,
of course. So manufacturers can be very interested in anything related to
the safe use of their products.
Ed Hare, not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.
________________________________
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com> on behalf of Dave Cole
<dave@nk7z.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:03 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
You might compose a short note to them, letting them know of the safety
issue, and your fear of a fire as a result of their failure to sufficiently
deal with the RFI issues they clearly have.
At a minimum, take copious notes, with everyone's name and times/dates, and
what was discussed.
The problem is, if I understand the rules correctly, YOU as the owner are
responsible, and must accept all interference caused to your device.
Maybe Ed H could chime in here, and help clarify that a bit. I am not a
lawyer, and not exposed to this as much as Ed is...
--
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 5/6/20 8:37 AM, EDWARDS, EDDIE J via RFI wrote:
I suggest you don't tell them about how you lock it as a work around
solution. Because there may be some other RF out there that could trigger
it too! Ask them to fix the "susceptibility to RF signals" so that this
never happens unexpectedly like when you're not home.
This is a fire safety issue the manufacturer must fix or else replace with
a new unit that is not "susceptible" to wireless signals as RF signals are
everywhere and that's getting worse every day.
73, de ed -K0iL
-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+eedwards=oppd.com@contesting.com> On Behalf Of
Randy Diddel
Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2020 9:32 AM
To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
I reached out to Samsung and logged a trouble ticket with them. The
Chatbot/person on the other end had no idea what Amateur/Ham Radio was nor
what RFI was either. After explaining it to him he repeated his summary of
what he thought my issue was, "So your oven is getting too hot?"
A local repair company is going to come out and take a look. I at least
have a ticket number for the incident logged with Samsung but zero
confidence that they understand what the issue is or that they will be
willing to do anything about it.
The oven is new and under warranty but, well beyond the return date from
Lowe's.
I continue to lock the oven from the panel and it does unlock
occasionally. New behavior is that once locked, after I am done with
operating on 40M, the panel is completely non-responsive and I have to pull
the oven out and unplug the power to it and then plug it back in.
I am going to order up some ferrite and try what others have done as well
and just live with it. The XYL is not interested in trying another brand-she
likes the continuity of the kitchen appliances all being the same brand and
finish.
73
K5RHD
/randy
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 May 2020 14:29:17 -0700
From: Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net>
To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Samsung oven RFI update
Message-ID: <70486942-3323-6e3f-57a3-820a9d5acb7b@nk7z.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Great suggestion Chuck, non confrontational, and more than likely
absolutely correct.
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 5/6/20 12:54 PM, Chuck Gooden wrote:
You need to get past the support help line.? Maybe write some well
crafted letters to the USA Samsung Corporate office or other engineering
office asking for assistance with a safety issue with the stove.
If you can reach the right person, they will be interested in resolving
the issue.
Chuck K9LC
On 5/6/2020 12:53 PM, Bill Mader wrote:
Ed makes a good point Randy.? This is much more than an annoyance!
Let us
know how the ferrites work out for you.? If you can't get any
satisfaction,
in this case I would consider a report to the CPSC:
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx
Fortunately, we have not experienced a similar issue with our new GE
stove
(JGB635DEK3WW).? So far I haven't noticed any RFI from it.? With as much
noise as I experience here, that may never happen!
73, Bill Mader, K8TE
ARRL New Mexico Section Manager
*ARRL - The national association for Amateur Radio**?*
Duke City Hamfest BoD Vice-Chairman www.dukecityhamfest.org 18-20 Sep
2020
Secretary and Past President, Albuquerque DX Association
W6H NM Coordinator, Route 66 On-the-Air 12-20 Sep 2020
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End of RFI Digest, Vol 208, Issue 9
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