I like the knowledgeable debating over controversial issues. Real information
can be found by reading it.
A few poorly chosen words in the heat of debate don't bother me at all. People
need to realize that their complaints about this debate can be annoying too.
Bill N3XL
________________________________
From: "rtty-request@contesting.com" <rtty-request@contesting.com>
To: rtty@contesting.com
Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 9:52:02 AM
Subject: RTTY Digest, Vol 90, Issue 44
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than "Re: Contents of RTTY digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining") (Bill, W6WRT)
2. Won First Plaque (Tom Martin)
3. Re: 75 Baud (Robert Chudek - K0RC)
4. Re: Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
(Joe Subich, W4TV)
5. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Bill, W6WRT)
6. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Jim Reisert AD1C)
7. Re: W6WRT is correct... (Dan Thompson)
8. Re: 75 Baud (Jim W7RY)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 20:36:33 -0700
From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
To: "RTTY" <rtty@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <pu5j16teracb3uvhcbdcuoa3so3c40p2mn@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:46:30 -0700, "Tom Osborne" <w7why@verizon.net>
wrote:
>I think these arguments should be settled out in the parking lot :-) Or at
>least with posts to eachother off the list.
>
>Usually, if I really dissagree with someone, I take it up with private
>emails.
REPLY:
Normally I agree, but if someone posts something in public that really
needs to be refuted, what good does it do to refute in private?
73, Bill W6WRT
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 23:07:50 -0500
From: "Tom Martin" <tmartin@chartermi.net>
Subject: [RTTY] Won First Plaque
To: <rtty@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <6A05E7F08D50465F9B163AA73D50A314@hcdiuser224148>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I might as well inform the group that I, too, won my first plaque. After many
second place finishes to AB8K, and first place Michigan certificates, I finally
won the Great Lakes Division High Power plaque.
Thanks to the Southwest Ohio DX Assn. for sponsoring the plaque.
I'd like to thank Don for his SO2R expertise. Reading his web page and
comments in here, got me into SO2R a few years ago. Also, his review of the
Icom Pro III for RTTY led me to get the Pro II this year. I believe that
having the Pro II helped a great deal, compared to the old FT-990.
I'm still amazed that Don had 1, 732 contacts with low power to my 935 contacts
with high power. Skill plus location, location, location will do it every
time.
73,
Tom W8JWN Iron Mountain, Michigan in the U.P.
--
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 827 of my spam emails to date.
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:36:44 -0500
From: "Robert Chudek - K0RC" <k0rc@citlink.net>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
To: <RTTY@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <0B0772A951564421AB325A21627B8A3A@GX620A>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Let's remove the clutter and simplify the original statement to:
"<Item of choice>" is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not
needed. Beer is fine the way it is.
Now choose your "item of choice" to insert in the above statement:
A second antenna
Computer logging
No-tune PA output
Stacked yagis
An RF Amplifier
A better radio
An electronic keyer
Some DSP filters
High quality coax
A Solid State Amplifier
A better QTH
(Add your favorites here)
Does this statement really make any sense to you?
Technology would not evolve if everyone believed "X" is fine the way it is.
For example, AM evolved into SSB. Do you remember the ruckus during this
technology transition period? What voice mode do you use on your radios
today? Apparently the beer wasn't fine the way it was. Just remember this
catch phrase... "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." Technology
will move steadily forward, whether you think it is "fine" or not.
Maybe you can take some comfort in knowing the majority of previous amateur
"modes" remain in use today (excluding spark). SSB replaced AM, but there's
still an AM position on your radio. PSK has become the most popular digital
mode, but RTTY remains the king of contesting. If 75 Baudot or ASCII RTTY
provides an overall improvement to the contest experience and scores, it
will be added to the arsenal of other innovations that have been adopted
over the years.
73 de Bob - K?RC in MN
----- Original Message -----
From: "W5CPT" <w5cpt@bellsouth.net>
To: "Vladimir Sidorov" <vs.lists@gmail.com>; <RTTY@contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
> 75 Baud RTTY is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not needed.
> Beer (like 45 Baud RTTY) is fine the way it is.
>
> Clint - W5CPT
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Vladimir Sidorov
> To: RTTY@contesting.com
> Sent: 16 June, 2010 5:41 PM
> Subject: [RTTY] 75 Baud
>
>
> Gents,
>
> Please be more careful with what we already have by now, i.e the 45 Baud
> RTTY. This mode is very well established and popular. Moreover, it sits
> firmly in some radios' hardware. Now that there are more and more talks
> about the magic 75 Baud one, we have already seen a semi-DX-pedition
> declaring 75 Baud RTTY "to work them all faster", then a new full-size 75
> Baud Sprint and finally a recent invitation to play 75 Baud in the Field
> Day. What's next? It might be another message which we have already seen
> here in the list, like if the RTTY (OK, the 75 Baud one) performance is
> like
> this, then "why bother"? And back to FD, I just recall somebody's report
> of
> RTTY introduction to newbies during the FD using a Pro3 without a PC. Now
> if
> the Pro3 cannot catch RTTY by its own built-in RTTY decoder, then again,
> why
> bother? The newbies may simply turn into bye-byes.
> I for one bought a Pro3 to have an instant RTTY machine to catch RTTY DX
> quickest possible, without spending time for PC boot, etc. It the 75 Baud
> development is pushed so hard, the Pro3 will turn just into a dust
> collector.
>
> As for the 45 Baud RTTY in contesting, its slower speed just brings up
> another great operator's challenge, how to handle both the slow speed and
> the extensive pile-up in the same time...
>
> Experiments with 75 Baud are fine, but not for an account of the
> mainstream
> 45 Baud RTTY, please.
>
> Sorry, just could not resist.
>
> 73,
> Vladimir VE3IAE
>
> ---
>
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:01:00 -0400
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] Cheating - (No Scratch that make it - "Whining")
To: W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com>, rtty@contesting.com
Message-ID: <4C19BA1C.5010105@subich.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Mike,
My replies to Bill were only in response to his whinny "I don't want
to have to compete against 'their kind'" nonsense. Like SO2R or not,
use SO2R or not, operators who use SO2R are just as much a single
operator as the guy with an IC-718 and AV-640 on the back deck. SO2R
operators should not be prevented from competing against other single
operator stations any more someone who has a tribander at 70 feet
should be prevented from competing with those of us who are limited
to verticals and low wires.
If one does not like SO2R as it is currently structured, the alternative
is to convince contest sponsors to adopt band change
limits (e.g., "n" band changes per clock hour) or a "10 minute
rule." Such rules significantly limit the "advantage" of SO2R
techniques while applying the same rules to all.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 6/16/2010 7:01 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
> I guess badgering and being obnoxious is not only limited to post made by
> W4TV.
>
> If all hams had your attitude Ham Radio would have died before it started.
>
> And I thought we were ambassadors of goodwill.
>
> Bill I think you need to use the delete key more and find a more fire proof
> suit OM.
>
>
> CC Packet Cluster W0MU-1
> W0MU.NET or 67.40.148.194
>
> "A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may
> never get over." Ben Franklin
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 03:00:39 -0700
From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: rtty@contesting.com
Message-ID: <d9sj165tcj3naoclokj05254415vhvidku@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 14:23:44 -0700, Gary McAdams
<g.m.mcadams@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Leadership comes from the top... Indulging in the endless arguments like
>this certainly drives folks away.
REPLY:
In the last year, membership of the reflector has increased from the
mid-900s to the mid-1000s.
73, Bill W6WRT
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:47:47 -0600
From: Jim Reisert AD1C <jjreisert@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: dezrat1242@yahoo.com
Cc: RTTY Reflector <rtty@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4C1A1973.2030402@alum.mit.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 6/17/2010 4:00 AM, Bill, W6WRT wrote:
>> Leadership comes from the top... Indulging in the endless arguments like
>> this certainly drives folks away.
>
> REPLY:
>
> In the last year, membership of the reflector has increased from the
> mid-900s to the mid-1000s.
Bill, that statement doesn't tell the full story because it does not
break out attrition. The list could have added 400 new members, but
lost 300 original members. Surely that's an exaggeration, but no
commercial enterprise or political candidate likes to lose members of
their core base. And one doesn't want to drive away newcomers into the
fold, who *thought* this aspect of the hobby could be fun, but quickly
tired of all the bickering.
73 - Jim AD1C
--
Jim Reisert AD1C, <jjreisert@alum.mit.edu>, http://www.ad1c.us
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:39:49 -0400
From: "Dan Thompson" <w4uh@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] W6WRT is correct...
To: <rtty@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <872CDDD3E6744CB8A427399DA76E399B@LENOVOAB7C06AF>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To whom it may concern:
I just joined this reflector about two weeks ago after deciding that I would
like to get more involved in RTTY contesting and I thought that this
reflector would help me learn many things. With all of the bickering going
on I have stayed silent, but I can no longer do that.
I really looked forward to great insight and knowledge from this reflector
(that you normally get on the other reflectors) that would help me and a
couple of others that I have been helping cultivate an interest in RTTY
contesting. I believe I have made a mistake and should pull the plug on this
nonsense today! With a few exceptions, the things that I have learned so far
are how to be childish, rude, and unprofessional. Right now I would be
embarrassed to recommend this reflector to anyone.
If this nonsense continues on it will cause harm to all of us. For the sake
of setting the proper example for the others that might be joining this
reflector and the sport of RTTY contesting, please stop the bickering and
get back to the purpose of this reflector. My delete button is wearing out!
Thanks so much for your consideration in this matter.
73,
Dan W4UH
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:51:57 -0700
From: Jim W7RY <jimw7ry@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
To: Robert Chudek - K0RC <k0rc@citlink.net>
Cc: RTTY@contesting.com
Message-ID:
<AANLkTimc2tUpc09yswLgJrPtwrOUZmG5b6VjS3FiLf5O@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Then how do you explain the popularity of CW Bob? Have you ever listened to
the CW portion of the band during a contest weekend?
Why hasn't EVERYONE moved to some fancy new digital mode instead of CW?
73
Jim W7RY
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Robert Chudek - K0RC <k0rc@citlink.net>wrote:
> Let's remove the clutter and simplify the original statement to:
>
> "<Item of choice>" is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not
> needed. Beer is fine the way it is.
>
> Now choose your "item of choice" to insert in the above statement:
>
> A second antenna
> Computer logging
> No-tune PA output
> Stacked yagis
> An RF Amplifier
> A better radio
> An electronic keyer
> Some DSP filters
> High quality coax
> A Solid State Amplifier
> A better QTH
> (Add your favorites here)
>
> Does this statement really make any sense to you?
>
> Technology would not evolve if everyone believed "X" is fine the way it is.
> For example, AM evolved into SSB. Do you remember the ruckus during this
> technology transition period? What voice mode do you use on your radios
> today? Apparently the beer wasn't fine the way it was. Just remember this
> catch phrase... "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated." Technology
> will move steadily forward, whether you think it is "fine" or not.
>
> Maybe you can take some comfort in knowing the majority of previous amateur
> "modes" remain in use today (excluding spark). SSB replaced AM, but there's
> still an AM position on your radio. PSK has become the most popular digital
> mode, but RTTY remains the king of contesting. If 75 Baudot or ASCII RTTY
> provides an overall improvement to the contest experience and scores, it
> will be added to the arsenal of other innovations that have been adopted
> over the years.
>
> 73 de Bob - K?RC in MN
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "W5CPT" <w5cpt@bellsouth.net>
> To: "Vladimir Sidorov" <vs.lists@gmail.com>; <RTTY@contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [RTTY] 75 Baud
>
>
> > 75 Baud RTTY is like putting Lime in Beer. Interesting, but not needed.
> > Beer (like 45 Baud RTTY) is fine the way it is.
> >
> > Clint - W5CPT
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Vladimir Sidorov
> > To: RTTY@contesting.com
> > Sent: 16 June, 2010 5:41 PM
> > Subject: [RTTY] 75 Baud
> >
> >
> > Gents,
> >
> > Please be more careful with what we already have by now, i.e the 45 Baud
> > RTTY. This mode is very well established and popular. Moreover, it sits
> > firmly in some radios' hardware. Now that there are more and more talks
> > about the magic 75 Baud one, we have already seen a semi-DX-pedition
> > declaring 75 Baud RTTY "to work them all faster", then a new full-size
> 75
> > Baud Sprint and finally a recent invitation to play 75 Baud in the Field
> > Day. What's next? It might be another message which we have already seen
> > here in the list, like if the RTTY (OK, the 75 Baud one) performance is
> > like
> > this, then "why bother"? And back to FD, I just recall somebody's report
> > of
> > RTTY introduction to newbies during the FD using a Pro3 without a PC.
> Now
> > if
> > the Pro3 cannot catch RTTY by its own built-in RTTY decoder, then again,
> > why
> > bother? The newbies may simply turn into bye-byes.
> > I for one bought a Pro3 to have an instant RTTY machine to catch RTTY DX
> > quickest possible, without spending time for PC boot, etc. It the 75
> Baud
> > development is pushed so hard, the Pro3 will turn just into a dust
> > collector.
> >
> > As for the 45 Baud RTTY in contesting, its slower speed just brings up
> > another great operator's challenge, how to handle both the slow speed
> and
> > the extensive pile-up in the same time...
> >
> > Experiments with 75 Baud are fine, but not for an account of the
> > mainstream
> > 45 Baud RTTY, please.
> >
> > Sorry, just could not resist.
> >
> > 73,
> > Vladimir VE3IAE
> >
> > ---
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RTTY mailing list
> > RTTY@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
> > _______________________________________________
> > RTTY mailing list
> > RTTY@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
>
> _______________________________________________
> RTTY mailing list
> RTTY@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rtty
>
------------------------------
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