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Re: [RTTY] RM-11708 Vision of the future

To: rtty@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RTTY] RM-11708 Vision of the future
From: Jay WS7I <ws7ik7tj@gmail.com>
Reply-to: ws7ik7tj@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 12:05:30 -0700
List-post: <rtty@contesting.com">mailto:rtty@contesting.com>
On 3/14/2014 11:45 AM, Kai penned his view:
Today's rules do not regulate bandwidth, you can use much more than 100 kHz legally (the whole CW/data segment) as long as the symbol rate is less than 300 baud. Foolish but not illegal. [doom and gloom!]. Exception: FSK RTTY (only) is restricted to 1500 Hz BW.

Why would this necessarily be bad? As you say it certainly wouldn't be of much vaiue to the person trying to run 100 kHz signal. Even the military is smarter than this.

The rules are outdated because the attempt to limit signaling BW by limiting tone shift (1 kHz) and baud rate (300 Hz). That limits ONLY FSK RTTY to 1500 Hz. Modern digital signals are not always "tone-shift" systems, thus their bandwdiths are not limited at all, but their symbol rates are! Thus the rules are out of date. Written many decades ago, they did not anticipate modern digital signaling.

Which useful modes that "operators" use are these ? How many operators use, want to use, modern digital signaling. Heck most can't even get a clean signal on RTTY.
Experimentation?
That 300 baud limit DOES hamper experimentation. Search the RM-11708 replies for N4II's comments. An important MF/HF propagation experiment is stopped dead in its track because of that archaic outdated 300 baud limit. [Gloom!]. That experiment seeks to measure propagation time-of-flight to within a millisecond to discover MY/HF propagation modes - that requires a symbol rate of at least 1 kHz (and about 2 kHz BW).

Oh, but that experiment will want a special 2 kHz exclusively just like the beacons that we already have as it won't work next to 500 guys trying to work W1AW/8.


Why 2.8 kHz?
The ARRL answer is that 2.8 kHz is already permitted in the channelized bands (weak argument, I think), but in any case the FCC will not make it any smaller than about 2.4 kHz because of their policy to NOT exclude current users of the spectrum. Current users use 2.2 kHz to 2.4 kHz.

There is no justification what-so-ever for 2.8 kHz and in fact it is not in accordance with the 2.7 kHz that Region II of which the ARRL is our representative should be pushing.



It's 2014 and you don't have to wait for that $100 Chinese HF transceiver (which might be limited to 2.8 kHz max by RM-11708). PACTOR-4 is not the problem. Today you can legally use Icom's D-STAR at HF in data mode (data only, not voice mode) in the CW/data spectrum. D-STAR BW is 6 kHz. Let me repeat that SIX KILOHERTZ. (D-STAR is meant for digital voice but carries a data channel as well, and it has already appeared in the HF voice bands). [Doom and Gloom].
Oh, so you're saying that this is a shot at making D-STAR not legal in the data area. That seems short sighted.

RM-11708 will prevent use of D-STAR's 6 kHz wide data mode (and similar systems) in the CW/data sub-bands. [Bright spot].

No wrong there is not now nor will there ever be a CW sub-band. There is only a Digital subband which is also wrong. See my comments to RM-11708.

There is nothing in here that will protect, increase or make "operators" operations on the digital bands much better. There is so little experimentation and new modes happening and this has little to do with that. No doubt your one and only example could have easily requested and obtained a STA or do me no longer do such things.

Picture this why can't an amateur radio operator engaged in emergency communications on 14.222 switch from USB and run a MT-63 data stream or any other number of digital modes and pass traffic. Rules that are out of date is why. And an organization that is out of touch with its membership.

How many people in the entire user spectrum of digital operators were asked before this silly RM-11708 what there opinion was on the matter? Sure Winlink 2000 sent out a number of emails to each and every one of its users to drum up support for the petition. Heck I got 6 at my house. And there were droves of folks whose only use of digital is called telnet in AirMail or RMSexpress that were all for the change. Not that the less than 100 RMS' are very important.

Did the ARRL ask, inquire, or any PSK31 operator, any RTTY user, and RTTY DXer, and Packet operators (yes HF packet still lives). The answer is blowing in the wind, they did not!

Jay


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