Scott, W4PA sales@tentec.com writes:
>
> > Elecraft $800 radio is awfully close in important specs and
> >can hear weak signals that Orion could not.
>
> Nothing against Elecraft - but I don't agree with that conclusion,
> much of the feedback that has appeared on the Internet
> doesn't support it and neither would measured specs from ARRL
> Product Reviews. We'll leave the "human interface for contesting"
> aspect vis a vis Elecraft alone as I don't think Eric and Wayne
> were targeting HF contesting specifically when they designed their
> radio; it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
>
I said "in important specs" and nothing about K2 for contesting. Implying
that radio doesn't have to cost $3.6k in order to have good RF characteristics,
ARRL reviews place Orion and K2 neck and neck in important RX specs, above some
of the other rigs.
> There is much more to the Orion than merely the #1 receiver
> performance, Yuri - you know that. The points of Orion versus other
> HF transceivers have been made in numerous places on the Internet
> and in the amateur magazines. I don't need to repeat them.
>
Yes, I know that, you are aiming Orion at contesters, there were some reviews
highlighting the benefits of Orion, but now as contesters are getting their
hands on the radio, trying to point out some areas for improvement, we are
getting labeled as trollers, nitpickers, etc. on this reflector. You either
want
it to become preferred contest rig, or you want to preach to TT cult followers
with "everything is perfect" sermon.
> > >Just to underline:
> > >Advantages of having and using PTT control line on CW:
> > >1. Smoother, not chopped up CW characters.
> > >2. Positive control over timing, control of linears, and other gizmos
in
> > SO2R
> > >setups.
> > >3. Saves relays.
> > >4. Eliminates QSK chatter, noise between characters when not wanted.
> > >5. Maintains wiring, continuity, functionality between SSB and CW modes.
>
> All of this is do-able with the Orion as-is. MOX CW operation defeats
> the purpose of full break-in CW operation. There is not going to be a
> change made - if you feel that this is a "must have" versus the other
> amazing aspects of the rig - then the Orion is not the transceiver you
> need to meet your needs for serious HF contesting.
>
It is not do-able as-is! One other obvious reason for PTT use during CW is
the muting and silencing the receiver. MOX, or rather COX (computer OX) should
be LEFT on CW as it is on SSB. Don't tell me that it is impossible to have QSK
and PTT modes on CW to coexist. It is done on all other radios since spark.
Just that TenTec "knows" that we do not need it? I find it very strange that
Amateur Radio Product Manager of TenTec is telling me that Orion is not the
transceiver to meet my needs for serious contesting.
> If you have external devices that need to be MOX CW PTT operated
> because you need proper sequencing, all the tools are available in the
> radio. Enable the QSK keying loop but don't hook anything to it.
> Run the CW output of your contest software to pin 3 for PTT on
> the AUX I/O jack of the rear of the Orion. Take the PTT line from
> the computer keying and run it to the TX EN jack on the back of the
> Orion. The TX EN jack will now act as a TX inhibitor and will not
> allow the radio to transmit in the absence of the PTT signal. You may
> now determine when RF comes out of the radio by whether or not
> there is a PTT signal present from the computer - just like you need.
>
> Go into the menu, turn up the QSK delay to whatever value suits your
> ear to defeat the QSK keying.
>
> Set the EXT T/R DELAY control in the menu for whatever value you
> need to assure the proper un-key value so ancillary equipment releases
> after RF output has stopped from the transceiver. The key-up value is
> already present to prevent initial hot switching.
>
> Sequence of events: PTT command is sent from the computer to the
> TX EN jack enabling the radio to transmit. (In its absence, nothing
> will happen). CW is then sent from the computer to the CW input.
> AMP KEY 1 interjects a 20 mS delay to key the linear and whatever
> devices you have after the linear. On un-key, the selected (which,
> you, the operator, have determined) EXT T/R DELAY time hangs
> an amount between 0 and 1 seconds after the disappearance
> of RF output power from the radio. If you want to cut the RF
> drive from the radio off *by your control via PTT* - then tell the
> PTT output from the computer how fast you need to have it removed.
> When that PTT signal disappears from the TX EN jack on the keying
> loop, the radio will stop transmitting.
>
> You have now achieved 1 through 4 on your above needs list. #5 is
> going to have to be up to you.
>
NOT!
I have wired the Orion as you suggest. But it does not perform as it should
with "normal" PTT control and as it is required by this and other contesters
pushing the envelope. TX EN does not work as PTT. TX EN will allow or block
transmitting, but does nothing to switch Orion from RX to TX mode, it is not
silencing the receiver (and allowing CW monitor to be heard if TX keyed). QSK
delay
does it and overrides that. If I adjust QSK delay to eliminate the relay
chatter and defeat QSK, I am adding "word delay" at the end of each keying.
This
has to change with speed in order to be kept at minimum (pain in the neck). The
reason for using PTT control is to allow more precise control of transmission
timing by computer controlling the PTT line and keying line. Orion doesn't
know that I have finished transmission and want to switch to RX immediately, my
computer knows it and lifts the PTT line in the shortest (programmed) time.
Orion adds the same amount of delay after each dit or dash, which at high speed
can cover part of the callsign of station replying to me (up to 1 sec.
delay?). Again, important factor is also to silence the RX with PTT line if I
need
to.
> >>Reasons so far given for not implementing it by TenTec?
> >>"We know better that you don't need it!"
>
> We do things differently than the Japanese - and if you interpret this
> as arrogance or "we know better" that is entirely your spin on it,
> not mine. If you're not willing to listen to an explanation of why our
> method is *in our opinion* superior, than really there isn't a whole lot
> more than I can say. We developed the radio (and previous ones)
> with full break-in CW in mind. If your chief aim is to defeat the CW
> capabilities of the Orion, this may not be the radio for you.
>
I do not think. You demonstrate your arrogance. You telling me, the consumer,
top race car driver, that I am not willing to listen to your explanation why
your method is superior? I, the CW contester am trying to defeat CW
capabilities of Orion? Think!
So much for "we listen to our users," you just blew it off.
The reality is this: I and bunch of other contesters do not care for
"superior" QSK for contest operation. It is fine for other modes and ways of
using the
radios, I some times use it, but for serious contesting I prefer PTT
controlled CW. It does positive control of radios, amplifiers, gadgets and
switching,
especially for two (or more) radio setups. It does precise control by computer
logging systems, knows when the transmission is finished and switches
immediately to receive after last dit, no delays. It mutes receiver so I can
concentrate on the other radio. If I need to mute the receiver (and switch
other
gizmos configured) without transmitting I can do that by activating PTT line. I
eliminate relay chatter and wear on relays. All we are asking, leave the PTT
line
going to the mike connector as PTT line on CW, as it is on SSB. Keep your
fancy QSK anyway you want it, it doesn't bother me being there and available if
needed. I want to keep the cabling hooked the same way for SSB as for CW (PTT
line from computer going to PTT line on mike connector). With the "solution"
you described above, I have to replug the cables, which is an unnecessary no-no
and it doesn't work the way is needed anyway.
Can you give me one reason why the PTT line on mike connector cannot be left
alone?
> Never has so much been written about something that the radio is already
> capable of - and capable of without needing anything other than a good
> read of the operator's manual.
>
We are just starting to see the comments, criticism and suggestion by
contesters as they bravely go for the "amazing" radio based on the praise by
marketing, advertising and some magazine reviews. I looked into the manual and
found
some good descriptions and some errors (mike connector wiring), implying that I
haven't figured obvious with PTT keying and it is all in there is a bit too
much. My "contester's" review, part 1 should be out soon. Maybe you will find
some food for improvement, maybe the Orion will be amazing enough as it is. You
will be the king of the hill until competition strikes.
> Yuri, tell me. When you owned an Omni-VI, it didn't act any different
> from the Orion regarding CW keying. Why is this an issue for you now?
>
OK, I'll tell you. I still own Omni D, Omni VI+ and three Titans (one has
fried vac relay by previous QSK owner). I use Titans in contests, they have PTT
option switchable, I never used them in QSK mode in the contests. Thank you for
that (behind :-) sight, leaving the PTT "feature".
Omni VI I tried to use, but the PTT thing, spurs, drifting PB and overall
features and feel did not impress me enough to replace the other (modified)
rigs
that I have in my arsenal. So it is sitting here as an example of great QSK
rig with decent front end, but that's about it. So "that" issue was then as it
is now. Now I care because I spend $3.6k for "amazing" radio and I can't even
use fricken CW PTT, because you decided that it is not needed (lousy piece of
wire to mike connector).
Have you surveyed other contesters and found out why Omni wasn't so wide
spread among contesters? Have you learned any lessons and applied them to
Orion?
You are not gaining more customers with that kind of attitude, if I had
manager like that, I would give him some lessons about listening to customers
and
how to treat them.
Happy and Prosperous New Year to you and rest of the TenTec employees, users
and worshipers. May your sales go through the roof, because you make your
customers happy!
> 73
> Scott Robbins, W4PA
> Amateur Radio Product Manager, Ten-Tec, Inc.
>
>
73 + HNY
Yuri Blanarovich, K3BU, VE3BMV, VE1BY
besides anything else, just customer that is trying to make your radios
better for more people and increase your sales for no compensation.
Sorry if I may seem too harsh, but I have this "desease" of reacting in kind.
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