Hi Rick,
1963-64 in Munich, I am the son of an Army aviator
and I was barely in pre/elementary school there.
I used to constantly run down the D cell batteries
to the radio that my Dad had given me to listen on
there in DL where I might drop a random wire out of
the 3rd story apartment window to try and hear more
stations. My Dad might say I was "fishing". hihi
Well, in reality, he was correct!
dit dit
73 de Billy, AA4NU
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP
>Billy,
>When were you an SWL in DL? And where?
>I was also an SWL in DL as a kid.
>That was 1959 to 1962. QTH was Zweibrucken, near the French border.
>I would have gotten on the air but in Germany we had to be 18 and I was just
>a very early teenager.
>
>The relay trick you mentioned was indeed good. It effectively doubled the
>voltage applied to the T/R relay just for an instant, speeding it up
>considerably. It almost immediately reverted to normal voltage to prevent
>any damage to the relay. In fact, in consideration of the fact that TEN-TEC
>does not delay the first dit long enough for the Ameritron relays, it's a
>great idea to use this circuit with Ameritron amps (if you don't have the
>QSK-5 option).
>
>YES, the open frame relays are now a bit faster than they formerly were, but
>the current real life switching time, including settling time and/or delay
>added from reverse diode is "20mS". This was measured within the last 10
>days on a brand new AL-80B by Bob, K4TAX.
>
>I agree the point on filtering to solve some of the PIN diode issues.
>However I guarantee you that you won't get anyone in our club (over 400
>members) to go back to PIN-Diode switching. Our club members are fanatics
>(as I used to be) and spend a lot of time and money planning their contest
>expeditions. In the past, PIN diodes caused us a lot of grief. Vacuum
>relays wear out after a long time, but they usually do not die prematurely.
>
>
>Quality of tubes is a very serious problem. More than most people realize.
>The only tube I really like besides the 3-500z and the 3CX-1200Z is the
>572B. Recently, for several months RF Parts could not even deliver any
>decent 572Bs, and now they say "limited stock, please call". Good quality
>tubes are scarce. I still have one brand new (boxed) 3-500z from Amperex.
>I've had it for over 20 years - just in case. Based on my experience (sorry,
>there I go again - hi), that should cover my needs for the rest of my life.
>I have to add that I do not abuse my amps. I run my 3-500z at about 600w.
>They last forever that way!
>
>73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Billy Cox
>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:02 PM
>To: Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP; 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
>Subject: Re: [TenTec] QSK or not?
>
>Hi Rick, and I enjoy following your posts!
>
>I was a SWL in DL land as a kid and was
>amazed at some of the signals there, so
>do understand the challenges a wee bit,
>glad to know things are improving there.
>
>Several years ago I believe Ameritron did change the original (SLOW) relay
>to a newer design. As mine use the QSK board, which means the T/R relay is
>always in "T", I have not considered changing them out.
>
>Adding the QSK board was a cleaner/quicker option for me than as Gary
>mentioned in his post, adding someone's custom idea to an amp.
>
>One of the contest clubs, YCCC? came up with a way to speed the old stock
>relay but even that would NOT be fast enough for true QSK.
>
>Much of the PIN "QRM" can be addressed with filtering/bypassing, as SO2R has
>some of the same challenges as M/M with lots of close RF.
>
>The AL1200 is a good amp, not perfect and it's tube replacement cost
>continues to rise. So far, there's not been a need to have to do that yet.
>
>Probably the best tubes today for most of us, are either the 3-500Z new or
>the 8877 sourced as a reliable "pull". Sadly the quality of many other RF
>tubes has become an adventure in risk.
>
>That is all part of learning and understanding how things really work, ...
>or should/could work and that makes this hobby so enjoyable at times.
>
>(BTW, these posts regarding QSK are encouraging as to one more sign that CW
>is not going away.)
>
>Have a great weekend there Rick!
>
>73 de Billy, AA4NU
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP
>>Hi Billy,
>>
>>Nice to hear from you again. Indeed the AL-1200 is a wonderful amplifier!
>>
>>I did say "my experience", and that is based on personal ownership as
>>well as lots of friends, members of my contest club, who had similar
>experience.
>>
>>BTW, it's more than $500 over here. Average? $500 is a fair comment.
>>
>>In addition we have always had a problem here in Europe with the
>>shortwave broadcast stations. You guys heard them, but they were 60
>>over 9 here, and the sum of the voltage hitting our rigs sometimes
>>caused the PIN-Diodes to cause IMD in the receivers. That not only
>>affected this type of amp, but also things like the Alpha amps. Our club
>members got rid of them.
>>
>>Fortunately that Intermod problem has mostly gone away since the
>>broadcast stations moved outside of the 40m band...except of course
>>on-site of a multi-multi operation.
>>
>>The AL-1200 is indeed a lovely amplifier and would be my first choice
>>(by
>>far) if we were allowed 1500w here, but I would immediately throw out
>>its open-frame relay and install a decent vacuum relay. I wouldn't
>>mess around with the PIN-Diodes.
>>We are limited to just 750w, so I stick with the 3-500z.
>>
>>73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Billy
>>Cox
>>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:41 PM
>>To: Billy Cox; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment; 'Discussion of Ten-Tec
>>Equipment'
>>Subject: Re: [TenTec] QSK or not?
>>
>>Really Rick, that a rather subjective statement? So let's allow for
>>other's experiences too as I have run a pair of
>>AL-1200 amps here with the internal QSK board for over 20 years of
>>DXing and contesting QSOs, each driven by various brands/models of gear
>>and different guest ops with * NO * design related problems.
>>
>>So there's another subjective statement to ponder! B-) B-)
>>
>>... and it's NOT $500 here in the US, so let's be accurate to not drift
>>into more anti-Ameritron bashing. QSL OM?
>>
>>73 de Billy, AA4NU
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP
>>>Yes, you are correct, but when you add the terribly expensive external
>>>circuits, the amp no longer attempts to follow CW keying with its
>>>internal relay. The Ameritron amps can only run clean QSK with a $500
>>>add-on, which my experience has been, are not real reliable. My
>>>experience is based on personal use for a few years, and knowledge of
>>>experience of several other members of my contesting club.
>>>
>>>If you want to run QSK at more than about 10 wpm, it would be better
>>>to purchase an amplifier with a high speed T/R relay. There are
>>>plenty of them on the market.
>>>
>>>I personally switched to a QSK Technologies amplifier. In fact I
>>>bought two of them. Never had any problems with them.
>>>
>>>Today I only have an older Ameritron (clone), the SB-1000, and I just
>>>don't run "full" QSK. For contests I set the timing such that I can
>>>hear between words. IMO, there is no tangible loss of functionality
>>>compared to full QSK.
>>>For normal non-contest QSOs I run about 1 second hang delay, which
>>>helps me keep what little bit of sanity I still have left.
>>>
>>>73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>>>Carling
>>>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 5:03 PM
>>>To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>Subject: Re: [TenTec] QSK or not?
>>>
>>>Yes, but I think a lot of radio amateurs using good QSK Rigs like the
>>>Tentec have managed to convert their amplifiers for QSK operation by
>>>adding a circuitboard like the QSK 1500 or the QSK5.
>>>
>>>I realize that is more than just a simple homebrewer undertaking.
>>>
>>>Best regards - Bry Carling
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 20, 2014, at 11:51 AM, "Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP"
>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It's not quite that simple, at least not always.
>>>>
>>>> "IF" your amplifier has a very fast T/R relay, such as a vacuum
>>>> relay, then you are correct; a few simple switching transistors and
>>>> a tiny relay will do the trick. But that only works when the main
>>>> T/R relay is fast enough to follow CW keying.
>>>>
>>>> If instead you have an amplifier whose T/R relay needs 20 mS to
>>>> switch, AND you connect the hand-shaking just as the Ten-Tec keying
>>>> loop normally works, the CW is not going to be very smooth. Timing
>>>> will get screwed up. The open-frame relays are just too slow to do
>>>> that. The only way to make them work is to have hang delay such
>>>> that they
>>>don't need to follow the keying.
>>>> The Ten-Tec hand-shaking does not do this.
>>>>
>>>> And then if you have to work with hang delay, you don't need the
>>>> complexity of the hand-shaking. You just need sufficient pre-dit
>>>> delay and adjustable hang delay - but you sacrifice true QSK.
>>>> TRUE QSK?
>>>> You never had it in the first place because you did not buy a QSK
>>>amplifier!
>>>>
>>>> No matter what you feed a mule or how you treat it, it will never be
>>>> a race horse!
>>>>
>>>> (On the other hand, not everybody needs or wants a race horse and
>>>> mules are wonderful animals!)
>>>>
>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> bcarling@cfl.rr.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] QSK or not?
>>>>
>>>> I have to wonder why some guys will spend $500 for an external
>>>> accessory to do QSK with their linear amplifier. The system in my
>>>> TT
>>>> 422 is so simple. A couple of simple boards and a relay.
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