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Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?

To: Scott Harwood <scotthsr@earthlink.net>, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
From: Cecil <chacuff@cableone.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:56:15 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Nothing except they both are discussions about things we really can't do 
anything about....no harm either way.  And I care about both....one is our 
history and the other our future...both important.

Thanks for your service...

Cecil
K5DL

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 14, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Scott Harwood <scotthsr@earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> Hey guys, what does this have to do with a future OIII and it's cost.  As a 
> former USAF officer in charge of intelligence security for my unit in good 
> old south east Asia , who cares?  We're dealing with TenTec issues here.  
> Just my two cents worth.
> 
> 73
> 
> Scott K4VWK
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cecil <chacuff@cableone.net>
>> Sent: Apr 14, 2014 9:03 PM
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>> 
>> Yep....google the St. Julian's Creek massacre for pictures of piles of R-390 
>> series receivers sitting out in the weather.  Fortunately the destruction of 
>> those were stopped and all were sold surplus...but that was the end.  As I 
>> understand it everything since then has been shredded....lots of R-1051 
>> series receivers...not my favorite...but still ashamed.
>> 
>> Cecil
>> K5DL
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 4:32 PM, Jim Vohland <n9vo@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure that I understand the story of destroying the equipment based 
>>> on having received "classified signals".  There is no way a kwm-2/2a or 
>>> s-line could have encrypted or decrypted signals. They were 
>>> receivers/transmitters, not cryptographic. In the navy, any classified 
>>> radio equipment had manuals which stressed exactly which circuit boards 
>>> were classified and requirement destruction in a specific manner. 
>>> Unclassified portions of the equipment required no special effort. a vacuum 
>>> tube doesn't retain signals. Stories of R390's languishing abound also. 
>>> Probably due more to a glut of old equipment. SP600's, R390s, R1051 and 
>>> even some ten-tec receivers were used for intercept operations. Many made 
>>> it to civilian/unclassified use. No security issues. 
>>> 
>>>> From: wn3vaw@verizon.net
>>>> To: tentec@contesting.com
>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 17:19:28 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>> 
>>>> Well, the story of the stupid destruction of those KWM-2/2A's and S-Lines 
>>>> is
>>>> an old story.  Sad to say, while there are variations on the theme, it's a
>>>> common story from almost any US military installation, regardless of the
>>>> branch, that was decommissioning the units at the time.
>>>> 
>>>> In essence, someone high enough up simply didn't want to "take any chances"
>>>> about ANY electronics that MIGHT have been used to encrypt/decrypt secure
>>>> communications.  So, he or she ordered that they take the benefit of the
>>>> doubt... and destroy EVERYTHING.  Which included all of that Collins gear,
>>>> and more.
>>>> 
>>>> That's one of the reasons, I have been told, that the flood of MilSurplus
>>>> equipment that used to flood the Amateur market has dried up.
>>>> 
>>>> Now, the good news is, a good bit (though not nearly enough!) of that gear
>>>> was... intercepted before destruction, and ended up in MARS stations, or
>>>> MilRec stations, or even, eventually, in private hands (I don't want to 
>>>> know
>>>> how!!)  
>>>> 
>>>> Still, it's a real shame.
>>>> 
>>>> Could you imagine, though, what the Amateur used equipment market would 
>>>> have
>>>> been like if a flood of MilSurplus KWM-2's had suddenly become available?  
>>>> 
>>>> Oh well.  So it goes.
>>>> 
>>>> 73, ron w3wn
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of k6jek
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 4:11 PM
>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>> 
>>>> I would have had nightmares for years if I'd witnessed that. I may have 
>>>> them
>>>> anyway just hearing about it.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Rick - DJ0IP / NJ0IP wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sure there was... Government stupidity and its insistence on wasting tax
>>>>> payers' money!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of James
>>>>> Duffer
>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 8:17 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Such a sad tale.  Sorry to hear of such destruction of good and harmless
>>>>> equipment.  Harmless as there was no "just" reason for the destruction.
>>>>> Jim, wd4air
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: Rick@DJ0IP.de
>>>>>> To: tentec@contesting.com
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:09:03 +0200
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can answer some of that, first hand.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In about 1973, the US Army in Europe (USAREUR) decided to close down 
>>>>>> hf and go fully to VHF and UHF.
>>>>>> Hundreds of S-Lines and KWM-2A's were collected and brought to the 
>>>>>> army disposal center in south western Germany.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was custodian of a MARS station in Berlin and on TDY in the area of 
>>>>>> the disposal center, so I dropped in to see if I could scrounge 
>>>>>> anything to distribute through the MARS channels to our members.  
>>>>>> There I witnessed the beautiful Collins radios stacked by the hundreds,
>>>> in
>>>>> an area of about 50 ft.
>>>>>> by 75 ft - being destroyed!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There were a few guys working hard destroying them.  Every tube was 
>>>>>> being broken with a hammer and the chassis of each was cut in half with a
>>>>> torch.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Seems they had been used by the Army Security Agency and they were 
>>>>>> afraid there might be some residual top secret data still inside some of
>>>>> the tube.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did everything I could to try and stop the action but to no avail.
>>>>>> Everyone on site was just following orders and they were not willing 
>>>>>> to pause while I tried to find a solution.  All of the radios were all 
>>>>>> completely destroyed.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was in tears.  I could have made every MARS member in Germany's 
>>>>>> dream come true if some moron hadn't have taken the decision to destroy
>>>>> them.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So that's what happened to our military S-Lines here in Europe. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
>>>>>> (Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Dave 
>>>>>> Edwards
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 14, 2014 6:16 PM
>>>>>> To: tentec@contesting.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] How much for an Orion III?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Also interesting (to think about)...
>>>>>> I wonder what percentage of them still exist today?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How many does the government still own?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How many remain on dusty shelves somewhere....unopened???
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ....Dave
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 4/14/14, 9:56 AM, Rsoifer@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>>> I asked Rod, K0DAS (retired from Rockwell Collins), how many  KWM-2s 
>>>>>>> were bought by hams rather than Uncle Sam.  He said that nobody 
>>>>>>> really knows, but his best guess is that the U.S. armed forces 
>>>>>>> bought between  1/4 and 1/3 of them.  Some went to other government 
>>>>>>> agencies as well  as foreign governments.  That still leaves quite a 
>>>>>>> few that were
>>>>>> bought by  hams like me.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 73 Ray W2RS
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>>>> 
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