I can't believe this discussion is still going on.
But, since someone mentioned Mr. Windom I have to ask if anyone has ever
used or seen what I call the "Classic" Windom, which I believe was the
original Windom design.
I have only ever seen one in use and it was at K4DNX's QTH in Winter
Haven, FL, way back in 1964.
The antenna was an 80 meter half-wave. It was a continuous hunk of wire
(no insulators 'cept for the end ones. The feed line was a single wire and
it was attached to the antenna
33% in from one end.
I believe OM Herb told me the antenna had an impedance around 300 ohms.
Fifty-plus years later, I'm still waiting to run across another antenna
like that.
Later, Joe
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry LaZar <k3ndm@comcast.net>
To: Wade Staggs <tvman1954@gmail.com>; Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
<tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2015 06:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] The OCFD Mystique
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<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>Wade,
The Windom was invented when tube transmitters were around. The
output stage of most, not all, could handle a fair difference in
impedance,
but most could not handle the very high impedances reflected
by feeding in a
voltage loop. So Windom said I have the answer. I'll
feed the antenna at a
point that would reflect a reasonable impedance
regardless of band. THERE
NEVER was a consideration for SWR. The SWR
issue ONLY came up after coax cable
began to be used widely.
Next, a Windom type antenna, dipole, and OCFD
are the exact same
thing. The only difference is the feed. A 132' wire will
have generally
the same gain regardless of how you feed it. However, the
pattern will
be skewed a bit showing a bit more gain in one direction feeding
it off
center. Most Windoms, OCFDs are designed for a 300 Ohm feed point
making
it necessary to use a 6:1 balun transformer. And if you have RF in the
shack, you are not using a good balun or have coupled energy from the
antenna to the transmission line, not an uncommon issue if you do not
come
away from the antenna at a right angles.
I do not intend to flame you so
take off the fire retardant clothes.
However, I will say you have fallen
victim to a lack of understanding of
antennas. I really don't mean to
criticize, but more than half of the
hams today really don't understand the
very basics of antenna design.
Now having gone through all of that, let
me say, A very good antenna
is a center fed 1/2 wave on 80 meters fed with
open wire, if you have a
fair run. Where you enter the house/shack, you
transition to something
like LMR-400 using a good 4:1 current balun. This
antenna will work all
of the bands 80-10 with a tuner. The losses will be very
low, even on 10
meter. You are correct about losses, keep'em down.
So,
why do I use a Carolina Windom type antenna. Because I bought
into having the
ability to do some fill in at the lower angles on the
lower bands. The center
fed dipole would have been a bit simpler, but I
felt at the time this would be
better; mine is a modified Carolina
Windon that I built using EZNEC modeling.
I have a really good choke 15
feet below the feed, so I have no problems with
RF in the shack. My
tuners seem to have no problem with tuning on 40-10; I do
have a little
trouble on 80 as my antenna is only 66' vice 132' long.
My advice is to just pick a design and put it up as high as you can.
Let your
tuner do all of the worrying for you. Feed the antenna with the
least loss
transmission line you can find or afford that fits your
chosen design, and
then use the heck out of it. Most of this makes
little difference from a
practical perspective, yet it's more than a
semester for the engineering
student. Just remember the ionosphere will
mess with your signal in the 10s of
dbs while antennas may only amount
to a
few.
73,
Barry
K3NDM
------ Original Message ------
From: "Wade
Staggs" <<a href="mailto:tvman1954@gmail.com";>tvman1954@gmail.com</a>>
To: "Barry LaZar" <<a
href="mailto:k3ndm@comcast.net";>k3ndm@comcast.net</a>>;
"Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment"
<<a href="mailto:tentec@contesting.com";>tentec@contesting.com</a>>
Sent: 9/22/2015
4:49:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] The OCFD Mystique
Once again I walk
forward with my Asbestos Suit on hi .. hi .. In the
QST Article linked below,
modeled on a 66 foot dipole. The SWR and Loss
Figures comparing Ladder Line (
Windowed Line ) and Coax is Drastically
Different. I know that the Antennas
are different Beasts in many ways.
And also that the SWR Figures should be
lower on an OCF Antenna. We are
also very aware that Ladder Line can't be
used on an OCF Antenna
because it is an Unbalanced Antenna. But .... if you
are going to need
a Tuner anyway to cover the Full Bands? Why do folks even
bother with
OCF Antennas? Just take a quick look at the Gain an 130 foot
dipole has
on 20 Meters using Ladder Line. Sure there are lots of Major and
Minor
Lobes, but the gain in the Major Lobes is Outstanding. Plus you can run
QRO without having enough RF in the Shack to cause major problems. Hey
guys, just asking here. There are many people here that are Much
smarter
than me. You never learn unless you ask the questions....
Someday when we can
afford a Faraday Cage.... I would like to play with
OCF Antennas again .. hi
... hi ..
<a
href="http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/QST_Dec_1993_p70-71.pdf";
target="_blank">http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/QST_Dec_1993_p70-71.pdf</a>
So ... we sit here with the 1% Silvadene Cream and Asbestos
Underwear on.
Please, be kind fellas This is an honest question because
I want to learn
something.
73 from Wade/KJ4WS
On Tue, Sep
22, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Barry LaZar <<a
href="mailto:k3ndm@comcast.net";>k3ndm@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:
Fellas,
There is nothing magic about an OCFD. It just a variant of the
Windom that
was invented, I believe, in the 1920's. It's nothing more
than a dipole fed
off center so that when you use it on even multiples
of a 1/2 wave the
impedance is either 50 Ohms or in the region of what
your tuner can handle.
If you can get it up 35 or more feet, it does
make for a pretty good all
around antenna. I have a variant called a
Carolina Windom. It's up about 40
feet and I've worked DXCC, mixed CW,
and phone. I've also gotten my WAS
using it and 100 Watts.
The issue of SWR is a red herring. So long
as you can tune the
"system" such that your rig can accept what the tuner
gives it, that
is really all that matters. Yes, there are losses associated
with high
SWR, but if you use low loss transmission line, the additional
loss
due to high SWR can be pretty trivial, a 1db or so, depending on SWR
and band being worked. On 10 meters my system losses total around 2 db
which includes everything behind the tuner.
One thing that must
be remembered is that the transmission line
from the antenna to the station
can be an impedance transformer if the
SWR is greater than 1:1. What this
means is that what you measure at
the station may not be reflective of what
the antenna is reflecting.
So, some of the comments about this antenna works
well over all but
this band or another may not be accurate unless the
effects of the
length of the transmission line is included.
Bottom line from here is put up 66' or 132' of wire. Feed it ~ 1/3
of the
way from an end. Use a 4:1 current balun if you don't want the
feed line to
radiate or voltage balun if you do. And, if you force the
feed line to
radiate, put a good RF choke about 15 or so feet down
from the antenna feed
point point, load it up, and start working the
world. Just remember to use a
good low loss coax like Belden 9913 or
Times Wire
LMR-400.
73,
Barry
K3NDM
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