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Re: [TenTec] Model 544 (or that era) part source needed

To: "'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Model 544 (or that era) part source needed
From: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac@arrl.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 19:58:15 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Mike,

Great info.  Thanks for the heads-up on the lens filter.  That's probably the 
root cause of the brightness attenuation.

Referring back to the schematic, the LED segment current is limited by seven 
270-ohm resistors on the cathode side, one per LED segment.  That value is to 
be expected with a +12V supply rail.  Since these 7 lines are strobed in a 
basic multiplexer, changing one resistor also affects the red LED segments in 
addition to  green. 

If I can keep current less than the 20 mA spec, I may  change the BJT switching 
transistor to a 2N7000 FET to minimize the on resistance.  Then current limit 
if necessary.  It would be nice to squeeze just a bit of extra brightness and 
still stay within HP's spec.  OTOH, I may find that max brightness has already 
been reached and that an increase in LED current doesn't yield any additional 
brightness.  

Paul, W9AC

-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bryce
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 6:07 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Model 544 (or that era) part source needed

one thing to take into account is the fact there is a RED plastic filter in 
front of the LEDs, that’s going to cut the brightness of the green LED by a 
large degree. There’s probably nothing wrong with the display


Mike Bryce, WB8VGE
 the heathkit shop
SunLight energy systems
J e e p
o|||||||o






> On Dec 5, 2015, at 3:53 PM, Paul Christensen <w9ac@arrl.net> wrote:
> 
> Found this message thread a bit late.  I am in the processes of 
> localizing a display brightness issue with my Triton 544 -- 
> specifically the green 7-segment LED, manufactured by HP, part number 
> 5082-7671.  The original poster was looking for a replacement.  The 
> LED is used to display the Triton's 100 Hz digit.  My first thought 
> was that the green LED required replacement, but in thinking this 
> though, I'm more inclined to believe it's working correctly and that 
> the driving circuitry requires further investigating.  I cannot 
> imagine ALL 7 segments loosing equal brightness over time -- unless 
> the LED driving current is at or near the absolute current rating as shown on 
> the HP datasheet.
> 
> The HP 7-segment LED uses a common anode.  Two transistors, a PNP/NPN 
> pair are responsible for functioning as a switch and for regulating LED 
> current.
> I believe the 220K resistor from the LED driver chip is responsible 
> for setting LED display current.  In looking at the HP specs, 
> achieving equal luminance across the red and green light spectrum 
> requires different LED current.  However, Ten Tec used one resistor 
> value (220K) for all red and green LEDs.
> 
> In the next week or two, I plan on rebuilding the PTO.  I'll dig into 
> the brightness issue at that time and measure voltage across the LED 
> segments and compare with the HP data sheet.  The green segments 
> should show voltage about 0.3V more than red.  If they're equal, owing 
> to the same 220K resistor value, that will likely explain the slight 
> brightness disparity.  Red LED current should be about 1.8V versus 2.2V for 
> the green LED.  The Plexiglas
> display lens may also be contributing to some green spectrum attenuation.   
> 
> Paul, W9AC       
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> Those LED displays date back to the 1970's, or maybe even a bit earlier.
> 
> The 54 used HP-5082 series LEDs for all counter sections... these 7 
> section LED displays were .43"  (10.92mm) and common cathode, with 
> right hand decimal points.
> 
> The correct LED for the green display is a HP 5082-7671.  You could 
> substitute a red display--HP 5082-7651, or a  yellow display, HP 5082-7661.
>  The red displays are extremely common and show up on eBay.  The green 
> and yellow displays are tad more uncommon, but this should still be a 
> 1 to 5 dollar part on the surplus market since zillions were made.
> 
> regards
> 
> Pete  k1zjh
> 
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