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[TenTec] Confusion re Omni V 1st IF filters (long and annoying...)

To: tentec@contesting.com
Subject: [TenTec] Confusion re Omni V 1st IF filters (long and annoying...)
From: "Petr Ourednik" <indians@xsmail.com>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2020 15:29:42 +0200
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Hi folks,

related to my preview post regarding the 1st IF 9MHz filters choosing (NAR 
position) for Omni V (w/o reply) I tried to read as much as documents about it 
but more study makes more confusion to me.
So I am trying to come over here and hope that someone more experienced will be 
so kind to explaining it to me. Lets follows...

In Chapter 4, Operation hints (page 4-1) in par. 4-1.1 CW we can read "Actual 
RX frequency is 600Hz lower then displayed TX frequency...". Also mentioned 
there "this is due to BFO shift to bring oscillator into filter passband". [1]

In Chapter 5, Operating Installation (page 5-1) in par. 5-1.3 Crystal filters 
we can read "A fourth optional filters [Model 218 (1.8k), Model 217 (0.5k), 
Model 219 (0.25k) may be installed in the 81410 9MHz IF board...". "This filter 
is selected by pressing the NAR key...". [1]

Also in Chapter 6, Circuit descriptions (page 6-57) in par. 6-15 we can find 
"CW transmit or TUNE, adjust C9 for 9.000600MHz". [1]

Finally in Chapter 3, Detailed Operating Instructions (page 3-8) in par. 
SPECIAL NOTES we can read "The standard Model 217, 500Hz cw 9MHz filter, will 
not work on FSK because it is optimized for 600Hz tones". [1]

Well from all of these facts in manual it seems that Omni V is using fixed BFO 
offset 600Hz on CW which can not be changed and side tone should be set to 
600Hz as same as the filters used in 1st IF must be centered at 9.000600MHz 
right?

Well now confusion is going to start...

In the Ten-Tec Instruction sheet Pt. No. 74089 for Models 217, 218, 219 and 220 
crystal filters we can see in Spec. table (page 1) for model 217:
Center frequency, MHz: 9.000750MHz (as same as Model 219 btw) [2] and these 
filters are generally recommended by Ten-Tec for Omni radios, so I presume it 
is also recommended for Omni V.
As I mentioned in preview part the Model 217 is recommended also directly in 
Omni V manual In Chapter 5, Operating Installation (page 5-1) in par. 5-1.3 
Crystal filters [1] even although these filters seems to be centered at 
9.000750MHz so these are reliable for radios with 750Hz BFO offset right?

...and confusion is ongoing.

In my email from TT guru Tyler, N4TY years ago he is recommending the filter 
with 9.000600MHz center frequency. He says "So I would just plug the bare #753 
Inrad filter into NAR slot and operate with it for awhile". [3]

In harmony with this email communication it is navigating us to Inrad web sites 
where we can read for filter #753:
400 Hz 9000.6 kHz CW 8-pole crystal filter. 
This filter is a comparable replacement for the Ten-Tec 217, but for lower 
pitch CW. [4, 5]

So even the Inrad talks about the "lower pitch" of their filter replacement for 
Model 217 by Ten-Tec so it also presume that Model 217 from Ten-Tec is really 
centered at 9.000750Hz instead of 9.000600MHz. 
Why Ten-Tec recommends this filter for Omni V, radio with 600Hz BFO offset?

At the end I found the eml threat on tentec@contesting.com list from 2003 named 
"Confusion re Inrad filters" where we can read from NO7UP an article about 
similar problem and we can read "In older rigs such as the Omni V, the offset 
is not adjustable - it is fixed at 600 Hz. You would normally set your side 
tone to 600 Hz and match the tone of the person you are working. Your signal 
would then be right on top of his signal. But when using the #759 and #760 
filters, which are fixed at 700 Hz, the station you are listening to will be 
out of the passband. So most people set their side tone at 700 Hz so they will 
be in the center of the 9MHz IF filter passband. But that creates another 
problem - since the radio has a 
fixed transmit offset of 600 Hz, you will NOT be right on top of the other 
station - you will be 100Hz off. Not normally a big deal, but most people would 
prefer to be right on top of the station they are working. That is why Inrad 
came up with the new 9MHz filters that have the 600Hz offset - so on the 
older rigs, everything lines up right." [6]

So it is confirming that Omni V has fixed BFO offset 600Hz and valid filter for 
1st IF 9MHz stage is centered at 9.000600MHz isn't it? So again, why Ten-Tec is 
recommending to install at that stage filters with 750Hz offset centered at 
9.000750Hz?

This is end of this annoying post folks. Is there somebody who is willing and 
kind to explaining it to me please? Am I doing some underlying or fundamental 
mistake or is there something what I am missing please? 

...oh well and back to the basic question from the beginning > which filter I 
should purchase and install to the Omni V at the NAR position for highest 
selectivity on CW to follow by my fully loaded 2nd IF stage?

-- 
73 - Petr, OK1RP
--
B: http://goo.gl/Fd2JhJ
YT: https://urlzs.com/UHNH9
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt
--
What could be easier..?  ¯‍∖‍_‍(‍ツ‍)‍_‍/‍¯


References:
[1] Ten-Tec Operators Manual, OMNI V, model 562, Part. No. 74199
[2] Ten-Tec Instruction sheet Pt.No. 74089 for Models 217, 218, 219 and 220 
crystal filters
[3] Tyler, N4TY, email communication, Tue, 30 Jun 2009
[4] https://www.inrad.net/product.php?productid=207&cat=90&page=1
[5] www.inrad.net
[6] NO7UP, tentec@contesting.com, "Confusion re Inrad filters", Fri, 18 Apr 
2003, 23:00:35

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