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Re: Topband: Fw: GAP VERTICAL QUESTION

To: "Richard Fry" <rfry@adams.net>, <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Fw: GAP VERTICAL QUESTION
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 11:49:10 -0500
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
This is ~true only for a "far field" analysis (as defined by NEC software)
for a vertical monopole -- which includes the propagation losses present in
the radiated fields from that monopole, over an infinite, FLAT, real-earth
ground plane.

However that is not reality.

I think what is going here is we have a bunch of anecdotal results based on one unknown compromised system compared to another compromised system when dozens of things are changed, and we are trying to generate physics to support one thing as being the cause.

I am 100% sure, based on dozens of comparisons with three stations located not too far from me, that it is "pretty difficult" to make an antenna of reasonable size and construction -20dB based on ground system shortfalls.

Some of this has gone beyond reasonable or logical, and is poisoning our knowledge base.

In Toledo, a good friend lived on a small city lot behind a restaurant. His backyard, the only place for an antenna, was just a few feet deep and maybe 100 feet long. He tied in everything he could; heating ducts, plumbing, short radials, a short chain link fence. He was consistently, over many years, within a few dB of my full size quarter wave in an ideal soil and ground system. This was night after night, DX or local, over and over again.

Another fellow in a neighborhood had a short TV tower with inverted L, and his radials ran to a sidewalk maybe ten or fifteen feet away. He had radials crossing the ceiling of his basement. His signal was the same way.

Another station, W8KWN, just had driven rods.

NONE of these stations were even close to 20 dB down. It was more like 5 dB to maybe a just little more at times, and a little less at times. The driven rods were the worse system, but even they were not -20 dB.

Now there was one station who had bad luck. He had bigger back yard, and it was just full of wires and antennas. He had all these bamboo supports and quads and other things, a yard full of "stuff". His signal was so weak he actually would swear and cuss at the other guys and accuse them of illegal power because his antennas "were so good" in his own mind that there was not way these other guys would beat him so badly unless they were cheating. No amount of conversation could convince him he had the problem.

In my experience, it is more about having a neat, clean, uncluttered installation and not doing things grossly wrong, like using coaxial stubs for loading inductance or packing 900 pounds of antennas into a two pound back yard area, than any sort of grounding issue.

The only -10 dB or -20 dB things I ever see are people who jam too much in small area, or have some other serious system error they created but just cannot see.

My ten foot tall mobile antenna with a pickup truck for a ground is about 20 dB down from my TX antenna. If someone else has that issue with a 50 foot tall inverted L, they better look at something other than a compromised ground system. They have a more serious issue.

73 Tom
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