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Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge

To: "Charlie Cunningham" <charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com>, "'James Rodenkirch'" <rodenkirch_llc@msn.com>, "'Top Band Contesting'" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge
From: "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 12:57:18 -0500
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
The proper ferrites work well down into any frequency you want, even LF.

I use them into UHF as a way to keep 2 and 4 bay yagis from having distorted patterns that can kill a good F/B. Several A-B tests on the 20' test tower have confirmed their effectiveness. Common mode is a minor issue at those frequencies that is easilly buried into the noise.

This hilltop is great BUT can get noisy so I design my yagis for high F/R and low frontal side lobes.

Carl
KM1H



----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie Cunningham
To: 'James Rodenkirch' ; 'Carl' ; 'Top Band Contesting'
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge


Hi, Jim

Well, Maxwell's "W2DU" balu ns are ferrite sleeve baluns and you can get those that go down to 160m. It's a matter of choosine the right ferrite for the frequenc;y range of interest, and using enough ferrite to build p the common-mode impedance!

73,
Charlie, K4OTV


From: James Rodenkirch [mailto:rodenkirch_llc@msn.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:45 AM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'Carl'; Top Band Contesting
Subject: RE: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge

Carl: I've read, at several places, that sleeve baluns are effective at VHF and above but not at HF frequencies..thoughts??

72/73, Jim Rodenkirch --- former Tempest inspector for the U.S. Navy..ahhhhh...Tempest comcerns - the good 'ol days hi Hi!

From: charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com
To: km1h@jeremy.mv.com; topband@contesting.com
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2014 11:39:14 -0500
Subject: Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge

I'm a great believer in ferrite sleeve baluns, Carl! That's all that I use,
and with a little work you can even connect two of them for 4:1 nalance.

73,
Charlie, K4OTV

-----Original Message-----
From: Carl [mailto:km1h@jeremy.mv.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:05 AM
To: Charlie Cunningham; 'TopBand'
Subject: Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge

The lowest loss cable I have here is 75 Ohm 1" General Cable Fused Disc; its

under a differnt name these days. Mostly air with poly discs and used for
the 200' runs for 10M, 2M, and 222 MHz.

For the 160/80 inverted vee it is 450' of regular foamed 3/4" 75 Ohm CATV
hardline with a RG-11 jumper and plenty of ferrite to the feed point. Ive
been using ferrite sleeve baluns since the mid 70's; I was introduced to
them by the company I worked for who was building equipment for the joint
CIA/DOD Tempest program.

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Cunningham" <charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com>
To: <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>; "'TopBand'" <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge


> All generally true, I expect, but I also believe that dielectric > constant
> and dielectric losses also figure in and the lowest loss lines would be
> filled with air, dry nitrogen or evacuated. I expect those would likely > be
> the lowest loss AND highest velocity factor cases.
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Friday, February 14, 2014 9:42 PM
> To: 'TopBand'
> Subject: Re: Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge
>
> On 2/14/2014 2:17 PM, Carl wrote:
>> Isnt that what "lowest loss" means? At least that was my intention.
>
> I must not have written clearly enough. I was not questioning the low
> loss, only that the high Vf was the way to get it.
>
> You DO get the low loss by going to larger coax, (like the 7/8-in hard
> line), but it's the fact that it's LARGER and has lower RF resistance,
> NOT the higher Vf.
>
> Think of it this way -- The higher Vf cable has less attenuation per ft
> because the higher Vf allows the center conductor to be larger.
> But a stub made with foam coax with Vf = 0.84 must be 27% longer than
> one with with a solid dielectric and Vf =.66. If those coaxes are the
> same diameter and of comparable quality, the stub attenuation and Q will
> be nearly the same.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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