Gutting the hobby? We are entitled to our own opinions. There are a
bunch of people having a blast on FT8 that seem to think differently.
What is your goal to get FT8 banned? Why would the ARRL do this? They
sell awards and 60 percent of LOTW confirms are coming in on FT8. Never
happening.
I never said it wasn't automated. I watch some SV doing it a year or
more ago. You cannot say the because a few are doing it everyone is
doing it.
My straw men are just as important as yours by the way. :)
W0MU
On 8/2/2019 5:25 PM, Billy Cox wrote:
No Mike, the reality is Gary was incorrect and there is no need to
go negative toward others who disagree as done in recent posts.
Read the details Mike, watch the video ... it's AUTOMATED. It's not
cheating (per say) or is it? That's another interesting thought ...
No need to wave your hands and create straw argument again on this.
This is not about just another mode ... this is about changing the
face of the hobby, and 'gutting' what others may still enjoy.
So, now that the reality is the mode can and is being automated,
what is the next step? As to the ARRL ban ... oh, yea that will work.
(And yes Tree and a few others experimented with this years ago on CW)
Billy, AA4NU
On August 2, 2019 at 6:10 PM W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com> wrote:
So does this mean that everyone uses this cheat? No.
By the way the ARRL has banned automatic unattended contacts from their
programs at the last board meeting. This means that the operator must
be instigating the contacts.
Curiously many many many years ago, a fellow by the call of N6TR created
a "robot" that made Sweepstakes contacts. It was not very clever but it
was done.
The only reason you can walk away with the stock program is that once
the qso starts the remaining sequences are indeed automated. So you can
walk away for about 30 seconds. I am pretty certain that this could
also be done with RTTY if it hasn't been already.
So how many people are fully automated? 10, 100? 1000? How many
people uses power over their licensing? 10, 100, 1000? Both get you
booted from ARRL programs. Why is one ok and the other is not? Just
curious.
What percent of ARRL participants are doing it right? Nearly everyone
other than the few outliers. If we can get a list of these automated
callsigns we could easily create a black list and not work them.
I am appalled that people would attempt to strong arm DX peditions from
using a completely legal mode that nets more contacts. Amazing sick!
W0MU
On 8/2/2019 4:55 PM, Billy Cox wrote:
Good Afternoon All,
Gary, then explain this please?
From http://edtk.de/
Start "Run Mode" In Run mode, CQs are called continuously, closed QSOs are logged
automatically. After logged or timed out QSOs, the Program recalls CQ. After some unsuccessful CQ
calls, the FT8 helper goes to sleep for about 2 minutes before he starts calling CQs again. - Run
mode should always be operated with "Hold Tx Freq"
Or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byJyxYi4I8Q
Thanks,
Billy, AA4NU
On August 2, 2019 at 5:16 PM Gary - K7EK via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
wrote:
FT8 (and FT4) does not work like that. An operator must be present to initiate contacts as
well as logging completed contacts, and intervening in case of sequencing problems, which can
occur frequently. The FT modes were intentionally written by K1JT to prevent fully automatic
unattended operation. PLEASE, know of what you speak instead of parroting what
ignorant cynics tell you. They have no life and nothing better to do than bitch and
whine and moan about things they haven't taken time to understand. Do not believe everything
you are told. You will be made to look as foolish as the cynics as you enable them and
propagate their rubbish. I work with FT8 and FT4 daily (CW too! CWOPS 997 and FISTS #3951
amongst others) and am a WSJTX and JTDX software tester. I know the JT packages quite
intimately and what's being propagated just ain't so (urban legend?). Get a life!
Best regards,
Gary, K7EK
Sent from BlueMail
On Aug 2, 2019, 14:46, at 14:46, Cecil <chacuff@cableone.net> wrote:
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 2, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Alan Swinger <awswinger@earthlink.net>
wrote:
. Since FT8 operators can walk away and not participate in QSOs, and
come back after some other activity and see how many new countries and
QSOs that the computer made, this is unlike Digital modes where
operators must remain engaged to make QSOs. Therefore, seems to me that
such Computer-generated contacts should have a separate category in the
current award systems since the operators are not directly involved in
making the QSOs . . . call it Computer-Aided Digital or something more
clever. No argument that skill is required to set up a station to make
FT-8 contacts, but a different set than what those of us who work DXCC,
Challenge, etc use on CW, RTTY, and SSB, including those towers,
expensive equipment, skills, and years of hard work to get the new ones
when there was NO FT-8 or similar modes!
So, I do not be begrudge the new low signal computer-aided modes, nor
do I cast aspersions on the Ops who enjoy using them . . . even though
I am unlikely to join their ranks, but the Ham community should not
penalize those of us who used non-FT modes to get our hard earned
awards by giving an unfair advantage to a new technology. We (Ham
Radio) need the New Technology, but these modes are sufficiently
different in many ways from the older modes that justifies a separate
category in the award spectrum. Therefore, I urge the ARRL and the CQ
Magazine leadership to establish a Digital award category that is
separate and different from the current DXCC et al Digital criteria.
Alan Swinger K9MBQ
Charlottesville, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: rich_k7zv@gphilltop.com
Sent: Aug 2, 2019 4:22 PM
To: Harald Rester <harryrester@gmx.de>
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 160
As ham radio changes there will remain at least a niche for CW, SSB,
and
RTTY and it's competitions. FT8 will supplement the bands , not
supplant
it, IMO. Do you think FT8, FT4 and whatever digital modes come along
are
the future or will something else take its place? Who knows... time
and
technology moves on. Maybe it might attract some of the Millennials
to
fill in the void by us Baby Boomers who will all too soon be making.
Let's set a good example for them to follow.
Rich K7ZV
On 2019-08-02 12:42 pm, Harald Rester wrote:
Think about the time *we all *could have been on the air, while
staring
at our screens, typing and reading. I make QSY to the shack - Hpe
CU!
Harry, DH1NBE
Am 02.08.2019 um 21:26 schrieb uy0zg:
I do not propose stopping the FT8.
just compete with each other.
But keep in mind - Arnold will be the first -)):
https://www.alamy.com/arnold-schwarzenegger-terminator-2-judgment-day-1991-image66516208.html
---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua
W0MU Mike Fatchett писал 2019-08-02 21:52:
Ah so all FT8 users are cheaters. Does that mean that all
Russian
hams use way more power than they should and their scores should
not
count either?
The real issue here is change. Ham radio has been in constant
motion
and change since it started and I hope in continues that way well
after we are dead.
So we better stop FT8 and protect VE1ZZ?
Sorry no.
Good day.
On 8/2/2019 12:45 PM, uy0zg wrote:
Hello, Mike
This is how the world works so that humanity always has moral
values.
They must be protected.
Example:
in a few years, 334 VE1ZZ countries will lose their value. His
achievements will be eaten by computer programs and robots ....
It is right ?
Will there be many talents at 160 meters like Jack?
Will not be !
On the contrary - more and more stupidity and envy....
---
Nick, UY0ZG
http://www.topband.in.ua
W0MU Mike Fatchett писал 2019-08-02 18:24:
Cheating is cheating. How many people used remote stations,
exceeded
their power limits, etc. Singling out a mode because you are
upset
that it has taken away activity in your preferred mode is not
helpful
to the hobby. Not everyone that use FT8 cheats. Not
everyone
that
uses a amp that exceeds their legal limit uses it in that
fashion.
How can you guarantee that everyone on the "Honor Role" was 100
percent honorable or even anyone that got DXCC did it right?
You
can't so please stop singling out a mode you don't care for.
We
get
it. Move on. It is here. Just like the Reverse beacon,
packet
cluster, etc.
We are all hams enjoying many aspects of the hobby. Can't we
get
along?
W0MU
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