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[TowerTalk] Radial question

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Radial question
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 18:28:06 -0800
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:26:35 -0000
From: "Doug Turnbull" <turnbull@net1.ie>
To: "'Larry Banks'" <larryb.w1dyj@verizon.net>,
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Radial question

Larry,OMs and YLs,
    Your point is correct some of the antenna books are very vague on this
point but I have seen it reinforced on the Top Band Reflector.    Generally
Qty 120 one hundred ten foot radials would be more than adequate for full
performance and of course 110 feet is less that a even 0.25 wavelength on
160 meters let alone 0.4 wavelength.    

    I am always learning and am open to correction but this is an issue of
some importance to me so I have read a fair bit and follow all discussions
on the topic.

    I am glad to hear others emphasizing that when using as few as sixteen
radials that the sensible length is 0.1 wavelength and I again would be
pretty sure the actual wire length is shorter due to the ground changing the
velocity factor for the wire.

    Now again I am open to correction and I am still learning.   Modelling
is for sure a good idea but you will need to know your soil characteristics
and conductivity and have a program which takes this into consideration
unless I am very much mistaken.

    This is an interesting subject and as I say there is much to learn.

              73 Doug EI2CN

###   Forget the top band reflector.  If you are using 110 ft long  radials, 
then  120
of em is a waste of effort.   The distance between the far ends of adjacent 
radials are
way too close together.  The optimum number of radials....if 110 ft long 
radials are used,
will be way less than 120 of em. 

##  If you hell bent to use 120 radials, they would have to be longer than 110 
ft  to be effective. 
If you are using a 4 square, with  1/4 wave spacing, then you can only achieve 
1/4 radials between 
each vertical, in the direct line route.   Some of the remaining radials will 
overlap of course, and 
some will be full length.  

##  Too bad somebody couldn’t install  120 x .4 wavelength  radials....then do 
some exhaustive tests,
like precise field strength measurements, both in the near and far field, and 
also on 100-10,000 mile paths.
Then chop the  radials  down from .4 wave....down to .25 wave, toss the chopped 
wire into the scrap
bin, then  re-do all the tests again.    Then compare the  longer and shorter 
radial tests.... with software.
Then see how they compare. 

##  then repeat the entire rigmarole...on lousy soil.

##  If you have the room for long radials,  wire is relatively cheap, and can 
be added as time and expenses allow. 

##  the 3 x local  AM broadcast stations locally, are all on small islands 
offshore.  And all of em use  10/8 ga wire radials, bare,solid
CU, and all of em go right into the saltwater...even at low tide.   One of 
them,  (now shut down) used a  4 x tower array, with all 4 x towers
inline, oriented N-S.     The array radiates W.   Our town is W of the array.   
The signal is (was) a  rock crusher.   A buddy on a cargo ship,
off the coast of Japan told me, he could easily hear it after dark each night.  
And JA is  30 degs  off of  due West. 

Jim   VE7RF  

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