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Re: [VHFcontesting] Alternator/VR question for rovers or auto guys

To: vhfcontesting@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Alternator/VR question for rovers or auto guys
From: Jim Erickson <jim@ericksononline.net>
Reply-to: jim@ericksononline.net
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 08:14:42 -0400
List-post: <vhfcontesting@contesting.com">mailto:vhfcontesting@contesting.com>
I have 2 comments or suggestions. As Dave suggested, the voltage of the alternator will vary depending on the state of the battery in order to control the charge current. If you are running fairly low power, less than 30 Amps, you can get a voltage booster/regulator from MFJ or the original designer whom I can't remember. It will provide a constant voltage to the rig no matter what the battery voltage is down to something like 10.5 volts. Also I used a battery combiner from Boat US that allowed charging from the automotive system but isolated it when the alternator is not at a charging level (or off). This small device will handle up to 80 Amps. I powered my amps with this up to 400 watts. Also use an appropriate size wire for the current and distance, #4 worked fine for me.


73 and good luck roving,  Jim K3LFO


On 6/6/2016 3:55 AM, David Pruett wrote:
Jared,

After 33 years as an electrical engineer for Chrysler (now retired), I guess that I qualify as an "auto guy". To be honest, my area of expertise was not charging systems but rather electronics and systems engineering. But on numerous occasions I had to go to the charging system experts to get questions answered as I was often confused by the behavior of a modern charging system. I think that is perhaps true in your case as well.

i won't pretend to have special, secret knowledge of Ford charging systems, but it's my understanding that most modern charging systems are pretty much the same, differing only in minor details.

You seem to believe that the charging system should keep the voltage constant, but that is not true. The purpose of the charging system is to maintain a healthy state of charge in the vehicle battery. It does this by monitoring many parameters, voltage being only one. Even the current going into or out of the battery is only part of the picture because of variations in the current delivered by the alternator.

The charging system controls the current being delivered by the alternator by controlling the current in the field of the alternator. But there are limits to how much current the alternator can deliver, based on how fast it is spinning (e.g., engine RPM). Few, if any vehicles have alternators which can produce full current while the engine is idling.

Probably the biggest mystery with modern charging systems are the strategies employed to do its job. This is because the charging system looks at the state of the vehicle electrical system and has to try and predict what the electrical load requirements are coming so it can get ready. Some of these strategies involve temperature, which might indicate that the A/C system will be turned on soon. Also, the performance of the battery itself it greatly affect by the temperature in the engine compartment, which can be tens or hundred of degrees higher than the outside ambient

Then again, on top of everything else, there is the wiring and batteries that you've added to your vehicle. The charging system doesn't know these have been added, it can only continue to do its job; that is to monitor what it was designed to monitor and to maintain a healthy state of charge in the battery.

I don't expect these generalized descriptions to be of much specific help to you. My purpose in sharing this information was to illustrate that there are many factors affecting the charging system; voltage being only one. Expecting a constant, steady voltage level as a sign of charging system health is simply not reasonable.

Reading through your note, I didn't see any voltage levels reported that would seem unhealthy so I think you're good to go for your rover operation. Just use common sense as to how you consume electricity and monitor the voltage on your auxiliary batteries to watch for undercharge conditions.

73, Dave, K8CC





On 6/5/2016 12:03 PM, Jarred Jackson wrote:
I finally ran a charging cable from my car battery (2012 Ford Edge) to the auxiliary batteries in the back of the car. The system consists for a 100A fuse mounted at the battery, cable to the rear of the passenger compartment, a marine style manual disconnect switch and two 6V 210Ah golf cart batteries in series. The plan is to disconnect the aux. batteries when the car is turned off and when starting. I cant use 6m for anything other than local contacts when the car is running, so often need to turn it off.


After getting all of this wired up yesterday, I was happy to see voltage climb to 14V on the aux. batteries and everything looked good. I left the car idling in the driveway and returned 20 minutes later to see voltage at 12.8V. Thinking I popped the 100A fuse in the charging line, I checked under the hood and saw the car battery at 12.9V and the fuse looked fine. I turned off the car and turned it back on and voltage came back to 13.8V for maybe 10 minutes, then dropped to 12.7V. At this point there is NO load on the aux. batteries at all (the main fuse for the amp rack and radio gear is pulled). The mobile radio in the car (simply plugged into the accessory port of the car) showed 12.4V.


This morning, the car has been idling for 30 minutes and voltage is good at 13.9V. The car battery is at about 14.1V and everything looks good. No change in setup from yesterday. However yesterday was a hot day and the hood was closed when idling (which is probably not a good idea for various reasons). Today is cooler and the hood is open as I take measurements. Is it possible that the voltage regulator doesn't like heat and simply keeping the hood cracked open will solve this problem? Or maybe there is something else I dont understand. A search of the internet says I need to replace my alternator. I am not so sure.


Any rovers or car guys have any thoughts on the cause?


Thanks,


Jarred - KF2MR
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Jim Erickson


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