Jay,
I don't know if LoTW truly "cares" about Cabrillo...I don't think
they've implemented the AI feature yet :-).
But LoTW does accept Cabrillo for most contests
https://lotw.arrl.org/lotw-help_devel_en/cabrillo/?lang=en
73, Bob K0NR
On 29-Jan-17 4:57 PM, Keith Morehouse wrote:
LoTW doesn't care about Cabrillo. LoTW uses .ADIF files which can be much
more specific as to mode. However, the current ADIF standard does not
(yet) understand what MSK144 is.
But, as far as contest logging goes, if you want to keep your digital QSOs
distinguishable from SSB QSOs, RY is the way to go since, as has been
mentioned, Cabrillo only understands PH, CW, FM or RY as modes. If you
just don't care, PH or RY will both work as has been proven for almost 15
years. Although, keep in mind the OTHER guy might care, whether you QSL
via hard card; LoTW or <shudder> E-QSL.
Jay W9RM
DM58 CO
Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO
On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Bob K0NR - email list <list@k0nr.com>
wrote:
Roger,
Thanks for the rational explanation. It's odd that cabrillo uses a higher
level construct for voice communications (Phone) and a more specific format
for digital communications (RTTY). Too bad RY isn't DT or something else to
indicate and cover all digital modes. The cabrillo standard is rather
limiting on mode, but it is what it is.
I've had issues with logging programs mapping PH to SSB when the contact
was really on FM. I can usually sort that out with enough effort and a good
text editor.
73, Bob K0NR
On 29-Jan-17 1:41 PM, Roger Rehr W3SZ wrote:
Hi All,
I had thought this was all common knowledge and "settled law" for at
least a decade. It is not a "new standard" :)
It is correct that it is not something to worry about or expend any time
or energy on.
LOTW is one reason why it matters. Many of us submit our logs to LOTW.
And LOTW will not map "PHONE" modes to the "DATA" mode group and will
reject QSO matches if one partner's QSO is recorded in the phone group
and the other partner's QSO is recorded in the data group. Data modes
accepted for LOTW include more than two dozen sub-modes but as would be
expected, PHONE modes are not among those modes.
LOTW mode mapping is described here:
https://lotw.arrl.org/lotw-help/frequently-asked-questions/#modes
The fundamental issue is that the Cabrillo Specification, which is used
by the ARRL as well as other organizations (e.g. CQ, DARC) for the
purposes of contest log scoring, includes only one data mode, "RY".
This specification was not developed by the ARRL and is not determined
by "fiat" from the ARRL.
The Cabrillo specification was developed by N5KO and is administered by
the WWROF, which is independent of the ARRL. See:
http://wwrof.org/cabrillo/
Logging programs COULD be written so as to allow the user to enter the
exact data mode used for each contact, be it JT65C, MSK144, JT4G or
whatever, and then have the software automatically map those modes to
"RY" when generating the Cabrillo file. Most logging program developers
have not chosen to do that.
And the Cabrillo specification mode definitions could be broadened, but
they have not been.
Additionally, entering all digital contacts in the log as phone modes
deprives one of the ability to go back over one's logs and determine
which contacts were and were not digital. The "RY" designation is
imperfect to be sure, but far superior in this respect to the "PH" or
"USB" designations.
In summary, there are very good reasons not to log every digital contact
as a phone mode. And it is not the ARRL's fault that "RY" is the only
mode choice given by many contest logging programs.
73,
Roger Rehr
W3SZ
On 1/29/2017 2:59 PM, Marshall-K5QE wrote:
Hello All....I have been using PH for WSJT contacts in my log files
sent to the ARRL for as long as I have been sending them. What WSJT
does is to inject tones into the microphone connector(essentially).
These tones follow the same path that speech would follow in the rig.
For me, that makes it PH. None of my logs has ever been questioned or
rejected.
In any case, the ARRL's VHF contests are not mode specific. In other
words, the mode does not matter....you get to work the other station
only once in any case. The robot does not match my PH against my
contact's RY or CW.
I would rather that the ARRL not, by fiat, create a "standard" for
WSJT type contacts. These contacts are clearly NOT RTTY. I don't
want to have to edit my log files to change all the PH to {new
standard} for just the WSJT contacts. Since MODE does not matter,
spending a lot of time worrying about it us just wasted time and energy.
If someone else wants to use RY, go for it, but I will stay with PH
unless I am forced to change. Since mode does not matter, why bother?
73 Marshall K5QE
On 1/28/2017 10:07 PM, Sean Waite wrote:
It most certainly does help, thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.
Sean WA1TE
On Sat, Jan 28, 2017, 18:38 Roger Rehr W3SZ <w3sz73@gmail.com> wrote:
There is an answer and Jay is 100% correct. :)
I was told long ago that RY is standard. There is good documentation
for this and so RY is what I have been doing for years to log digital
contacts for Cabrillo logs.
Here are some references, listed as first reference then quotation:
http://qsl.net/w3km/cab_template.htm
Most sponsors use `RY` for all non-CW digital modes.
https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~becher/ShackPrimer/N1MM%20Logger
%20Documents%202011-02-03_merged[1].pdf
<https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~becher/ShackPrimer/N1MM%20Logger%20Documents%202011-02-03_merged%5B1%5D.pdf>
<https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~becher/ShackPrimer/N1MM%20Logge
r%20Documents%202011-02-03_merged%5B1%5D.pdf>
page 174: Note: The Cabrillo standard only supports one mode
designator
for digital modes: RY.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Contest%20-%20General/Tutoria
ls/Submitting%20An%20Electronic%20Contest%20Log.pdf
The next item is the mode used . The standard abbreviations are PH for
an SSB or AM QSO, CW for CW, FM for FM, and RY for RTTY/digital modes
Hope that helps!
73,
Roger Rehr
W3SZ
On 1/28/2017 4:50 PM, Sean Waite wrote:
Sounds like there is no real answer, with some people doing PH or RY
As long as there is no official whatever for it, I guess we can use
whatever makes sense. Probably RY, though PH is reasonable as well.
Thanks,
Sean WA1TE
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 16:26 Keith Morehouse <w9rm@calmesapartners.com
wrote:
RY will do it.
Jay W9RM
DM58 CO
Keith J Morehouse
Managing Partner
Calmesa Partners G.P.
Olathe, CO
I
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Sean Waite <waisean@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hey All,
What do we put for Mode in a cabrillo file when you've made an
MSK144
contact? The only options in the QSO standard seem to be CW, PH,
FM or
RY.
Thanks!
Sean WA1TE
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