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Re: [RFI] Noisy or Quiet Power Supplies?

To: Howard Lester <howard220@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Noisy or Quiet Power Supplies?
From: dgsvetan@rockwellcollins.com
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:28:06 -0500
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Howard, 

Since your use of a quote from my posting on power supplies started the 
whole ladder line thread, I thought I should weigh in with a few comments.

First, we must keep in mind that "lower emissions" does not mean "NO 
emissions".  I still maintain that the SS-30 series of power supplies is 
an excellent performer with respect to EMI, as reported by ARRL lab 
testing.  But, like anything else in the techncial realm, there are many 
variables and you found a major one with your station setup using the 
ladder line.  Just curious:  how close was the power supply to the line?

Now, here is where the fire and flames will begin.  Howard, you kept the 
ladder line and changed out the power supply.  I would have trashed the 
line and kept the supply.  Here's why:

1.  Retaining use of ladder line still leaves you vulnerable to other 
noise sources.  Jim Brown's (K9YC) postings clearly discuss the issues 
with the use of open line from an RFI perspective.

2.  Retaining use of ladder line (or any other form of open wire feeders) 
leaves you very vulnerable to lightning damage of the worst kind.  It even 
raises the issue of personal safety.  Let me ask:  How many people on this 
reflector who use wire feeders of any type have any form  of lightning 
protection on those feeders? 

Thanks to E-Pay, I do have a pair of lightning protectors for wire 
feeders.  They are US Gov't surplus (NOS) and were once part of a rhombic 
antenna kit.  I myself do not use any wire feeders at this time, but I am 
thinking about erecting a 132 foot flat top in the near future.  It will 
be fed with wire feeders and those protectors will be at the bottom end of 
those feeders  - right above the remotely located tuner that will be used 
with that antenna.  There will be coax between my shack and that tuner. 
(Fixed rule in my shack:  no unprotected lines shall enter or leave the 
shack.  All RF transmission shall be via coaxial cable only.  Rotator and 
remote switch lines shall be protected with appropriate devices made for 
the task.  The same is true for telephone and video lines.)

I love classic rigs and accessories, and the Johnson Matchbox tuner is 
truly one of those.  I own the smaller (275 watt) Matchbox, but its only 
use for me is Field Day or portable operations.  It will never see wire 
feeders in my shack.  Anyway, before lighting off the flares and rockets 
in my direction, please consider what could happen if your antenna and/or 
wire feeders were to take a direct lightning attachment.  Can you envision 
your shack resembling the contents of a bag of Kingsford's product?  As 
someone who took 2 direct hits in 2 years (and have the scorched and 
exploded antennas, "modified" coax, and welded remote switch relays to 
prove it), that thought enters my mind a lot. 

If you do not have lightning protection on your open feeders, then I 
suggest, at a minimum, you have some sort of reliable scheme for hard 
grounding them when not in use and/or disconnecting them from the entry to 
the shack, when not in use.  If you don't want to run around and mess with 
lots of big clips to make "kluge" connections, consider use of Kilovac (or 
equivalent) high voltage relays to handle the switching chores for you. 

Finally, someone else has already said this, but it bears repeating: 
virtually every electronic device today uses a switching power supply in 
one way or another.  That's because linear power supplies can not meet the 
"Green" efficiency requirements and also because iron core transfomers 
wound with lots of copper wire are too expensive.  Those of you on the 
list who have not had RFI problems from switchers should consider 
yourselves as fortunate.  However, your luck may not last forever.  Note 
that practitioners of the EMC art, such as W1RFI and K9YC, make frequent 
mention (and use) of common mode chokes and balancing of wire pairs to 
minimize RFI effects.  It is very difficult to do those tricks with wire 
feeders (especially the common mode choking), so keep all of that in mind 
when laying out your station plan.  I operate 160m thru 70cm, with plans 
to expand into the 902 MHz and 1290 MHz bands soon.  Examination of 
current coax cable catalogs will show you that the manufacturers have come 
a long way in reducing cable losses.  I presently have 250 feet of LMR-400 
in service on MF and HF, with more than 100 feet per run of either LMR-400 
or LMR-600 for 6m, 2m, 1.25m, and 70cm applications.  I will be going to 
hardline as I move above 70cm.  Take a look at RG-6/U coax as used by the 
CATV industry.  Yes, It has  plenty of loss up at 700 MHz (with TV channel 
51, now the "top" over-the-air channel in many markets, being just below 
700 MHz), but that loss is easily compensated for by use of inexpensive 
pre-amps or line amplifiers.

Putting on the Nomex suit ...

73, Dale
WA9ENA 

 



Howard Lester <howard220@gmail.com> 
Sent by: rfi-bounces@contesting.com
10/19/2010 10:35 AM

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Re: [RFI] Noisy or Quiet Power Supplies?






On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Dale Svetanoff 
<svetanoff@earthlink.net>wrote:


> I have been running the Astron SS-30M for several years now with NO
> problems whatever.  (See QST back in 2002 - can't recall the issue - for 
a
> review of the Astron, and other, switching power supplies.  The ARRL did 
an
> excellent job of testing several popular models - most of which are 
still
> available.  Read the reviews then buy.  That's why I bought the Astron; 
it
> was the lowest noise unit they tested.)
>
> Based on that QST review I bought the same SS-30M for my new FT-950. I 
was
hearing noise every so-many KHz up and down all the bands and wondered if 
it
was the power supply. I phoned the dealer (KJI Electronics), and Gene 
right
off asked me if I was feeding my antenna with ladder line. I replied "Yes,
and it runs through the wall and connects directly to the transmatch on my
desk." He said that was the problem. If I was running coax, he said, I
wouldn't have that noise. So I exchanged it for the old fashioned
heavyweight RM-35M and I have no noise issues with it.

Howard N7SO
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