Good resources, but ARRL RFI is already severely understaffed. And they'd
have to hire someone else than a magazine editor (QST) to author the
resource. Excellent ideas, but don't stress the staff too much or QST
might begin to look and read like Pop Mechanics.....
Dave - WØLEV
On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 8:24 PM James Gordon Beattie Jr <w2ttt@att.net>
wrote:
> Ed,
> Perhaps it would be good to have a two or more volume set on RFI. It
> could be organized either as a volume for RFI from Amateur Radio and
> another volume for RFI to Amateur Radio, or it could be grouped by device
> types and their RFI relationship with Amateur Radio. Even if one volume,
> both organizational models are worth discussing.
> Thoughts?
>
>
> 73,
> J. Gordon "Gordie" Beattie, Jr., W2TTT
> 201.314.6964
> W2TTT@ATT.NET
> Gordon.BeattieJr@VIAVISolutions.com
>
>
> Get On The Air!
>
> ________________________________
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w2ttt=att.net@contesting.com> on behalf of Hare,
> Ed, W1RFI <w1rfi@arrl.org>
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2022 2:44:22 PM
> To: nk7z@arrl.net <dave@nk7z.net>; rfi@contesting.com <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel RFI System
>
> Actually, things have changed some with FCC since that decision was made,
> so I am going to call in a few markers and see what realistically can be
> done.
>
> Right now, the ARRL RFI Book is out of print, but Steve Anderson and I had
> talked recently about putting together a plan to redo it, from scratch for
> a few chapters. He will email you about some parts of that I think you can
> help with, as soon as we talk to the editors about page rates for
> authorship, etc.
>
> I could well see putting together a booklet that contains the consumer
> pamphlet, the FCC material condensed as needed and some basic tips on
> resolving interference.
>
> Much of that older material, however, focused on interference FROM amateur
> radio. Looking at this list alone, we can see that this has become less and
> less of an issue. Most TV is watched on cable or streamed. Most telephone
> is wireless and the industry is improving immunity on a regular basis. The
> immunity standard that C63 wrote for the immunity of micromedia equipment
> contains test levels we could not have imagined years ago, up to 300V/m
> immunity. The smart grid immunity is spec'ed at 30 V/m or so, and we are
> seeing that many devices do not exhibit RFI problems from nearby
> transmitters.
>
> But the real problem is noise, and that is just as much of a "diplomacy"
> problem as interference to neighbor's equipment. (The response can be, "So,
> the tables have turned, have they?" Neighbors do not understand the issues
> involved with RFI, and seeing the misinformation common here, hams struggle
> with some parts of it, too. So, hams need to start by telling a neighbor
> that this device he just bought at Walmart is being operated in violation
> of some federal law he doesn't even understand. We need brochures for
> that, too, and now that we have our EMC staff pretty well trained in
> handling cases, we are branching out into these side roads that are equally
> important.
>
> Ed, W1RFI
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave (NK7Z) <dave@nk7z.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2022 1:52 PM
> To: Hare, Ed, W1RFI <w1rfi@arrl.org>; rfi@contesting.com <
> rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel RFI System
>
> Ed,
>
> I applaud the ARRL's efforts along this line, and in general with
> regards to RFI! THANK YOU for YOUR efforts, as well...
>
> Maybe the ARRL could publish an actual book that the Amateur could hand
> out to offenders, or victims of RFI!
>
> Perhaps the FCC could add something back on the web page they run, and
> the ARRL book could point at it...
>
> Even better, maybe the ARRL could convince the FCC to make the book ARRL
> available on the FCC web page as a PDF... I know the last request is
> not going to happen but it felt good to say it... :)
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 12/25/22 09:36, Hare, Ed, W1RFI wrote:
> > About 25 years ago, ARRL was contacted by an engineer who worked with
> > the FCC. He had been assigned to rewrite the FCC's RFI material. We
> > worked together over a number of months and came up with a book on
> > consumer interference that truly spoke to the issues. It lived on the
> > FCC web page for quite a while.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the FCC, in its wisdom, decided that the RFI material
> > needed to be simplified. It removed much of what we had included
> > earlier. Fortunately, ARRL kept a copy and because it was authored by
> > the US government, it is public domain and may be circulated and used
> > freely. So we kept that technically accurate material on the ARRL web
> > page. The information on interference to consumer equipment is quite to
> > the point and will go a long way towards helping a neighbor to
> > understand. My personal favorite from the book is the following:
> >
> > "Stereos, electronic organs, and intercom devices, among others, can
> > react to nearby radio transmitters. When this happens, the device
> > improperly functions as a radio receiver."
> >
> > The text in its entirely is available at:
> >
> >
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/FCC%20RFI%20Information/tvibook.pdf
> <
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/FCC%20RFI%20Information/tvibook.pdf
> >
> >
> > ARRL also worked with the Consumer Electronics Association and prepared
> > a joint publication to help consumers understand interference causes and
> > cures.
> >
> > This is no longer printed as a pamphlet, but the text is still mostly
> > current. (I can see some of the sources at the end need to be updated.)
> >
> > The pamphlet text is available at:
> >
> >
> https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf
> <
> https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf
> >
> >
> > In the event a neighbor complains to the FCC, if they cite amateur
> > radio, the case will end up going to Laura Smith. She is well educated
> > on the types of interference that can and cannot be caused by rules
> > violations at an amateur station, so there is little risk that the
> > complaint alone will cause the amateur any problems. It is most likely
> > that she will send the case to ARRL, who will work with the amateur and
> > his/her neighbor under our cooperative agreements with FCC staff.
> >
> > Ed Hare, W1RFI
> > ARRL Lab
> >
> >
> > What To Do if You Have an Electronic Interference Problem - American
> > Radio Relay League
> > <
> https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf
> >
> > Page 5 of 7 Try the Easy Things First Sometimes, the easiest solutions
> > are the best. Many cases of interference can be resolved without the
> > need for technical investigations or knowledge.
> > www.arrl.org<http://www.arrl.org>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com> on behalf of
> > Dave (NK7Z) <dave@nk7z.net>
> > *Sent:* Sunday, December 25, 2022 10:13 AM
> > *To:* rfi@contesting.com <rfi@contesting.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel RFI System
> > Hi Dale,
> >
> > For the most part that is not going to work well... No matter how much
> > you talk to your next door neighbor if you interfere with their <insert
> > device name here>, it is almost always your fault in their minds...
> > The logic goes like this:
> >
> > "I have a <insert device name here>, it works 99% of the time, but when
> > you transmit it does not work..."
> >
> > How do you think most people are going to react to that situation... So
> > as Amateurs, we start out handicapped, because the consumer is not
> > educated in how RFI responsibility is parsed out. The consumer is sure
> > it is you, not them...
> >
> > Now lets reverse the victim status...
> >
> > The consumer installs a multi thousand dollar <insert device name here>:
> >
> > "I paid thousands to to install this, and had professionals install
> > it... I bought it from a manufacturer we all know and love. It can't
> > be my equipment..."
> >
> > Again-- education of the consumer is the driver here. If the consumer
> > is happy, and the system is in place, the Amateur is already behind the
> > 8-Ball, and again, the Amateur is handicapped as a result of lack of
> > education on the consumers part, with regards to parsing RFI
> responsibility.
> >
> > This places an installer, or manufacturer, in the position of telling
> > the consumer that their newly installed multi thousand dollar widget,
> > may interfere with the amateur next door, and they, (the consumer), will
> > have to pay more to fix the issue...
> >
> > Again, the consumer is going to whine about this state of affairs, and
> > neither the the manufacture, or the vendor, are going to tell the
> > consumer this, as they may lose the sale... Again, education issues for
> > the consumer, and maybe penalty's for the vendor if they don't tell the
> > consumer might help...
> >
> > Until the consumer, not the Amateur, is directly affected by RFI, the
> > RFI nightmare we all live in, (if we are a city), will continue.
> >
> > Part of the RFI "fix" MUST include education beyond the Part 15, or 18,
> > stickers on equipment to consumers... The consumer views these stickers
> > like the tags on mattresses that say "DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALTY OF
> > LAW", they are ignored, and removed, for the most part.
> >
> > I really don't see how this will get solved in my lifetime... At 70, I
> > have perhaps 15 to 20, (if I am lucky), years left...
> >
> > It will take that long just to cycle out most of the old gear, if a
> > mandate were to be put in place today.
> >
> > I applaud the efforts of the ARRL, the only way to work this issue is to
> > educate everyone involved, and get standards in place...
> >
> > Maybe the next generation of hams will see less RFI...
> >
> > With regards to contracts... You are dead correct Dale!
> >
> > I was lucky, I got my HVAC installer to put in his contract that if RFI
> > were to occur at a level I was not happy with, they would fix the issue,
> > or remove and replace the HVAC system. I doubt I could get that
> > concession again today... No RFI, occurred however, as we discussed
> > this with the vendor prior to install, (no PWM motors were used), and
> > the vendor contacted the manufacturer BEFORE starting on the project.
> >
> > What next door neighbor is going to tell a vendor, you had better be
> > ready to charge me more, if the ham next door complains...
> >
> > Consumers MUST be educated about RFI responsibilities, as part of an
> > overall fix, if RFI is to be reduced...
> >
> > 73, and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >
> > On 12/25/22 01:04, Dale wrote:
> >> so it would seem that we hams try to work with our neighbors to
> minimize the problems from their systems
> > _______________________________________________
> > RFI mailing list
> > RFI@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> > <http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi>
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--
*Dave - WØLEV*
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