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Re: Topband: Antennas, Guy Ropes, and High Winds

To: eric@k3na.org
Subject: Re: Topband: Antennas, Guy Ropes, and High Winds
From: George Taft <W8UVZ@voyager.net>
Reply-to: w8uvz@voyager.net
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:10:56 -0500
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
The Boys in Battle Creek have had good success with Dacron rope.  It
seems to have  minimum stretch and appears quite UV resistant.  We got
ours from Synthetic Textiles, I think (W0CD bought it for the group).

My 5 X 80 M verticals are all held in place by either 1/8" or 5/32"
material and have been in place for 5 years now.  I've tensioned them
every couple of years.  W0CD has been using Dacron for 15 years now w/o
a failure - essentially the same size ropes.

Little more expensive but worth the extra strength, I think.

73  George  W8UVZ


Eric Scace K3NA wrote:
> 
>    Polyester and many other types of rope are quite stretchy -- and some 
> loose weaves are horrible in this regard.  With the long
> lengths involved, it is quite easy for the combination of sag in the guy plus 
> stretch to allow considerable change in the
> coordinates of the guy attachment point.  This can put the vertical out of 
> column.  Once far enough out of column, it will crumple
> over.  No guy needs to break for this kind of failure.  Changing the size of 
> the polyester rope will not fix the problem -- it will
> make it worse because the heavier rope will sag more.  The lighter twine 
> looks "straighter" because it doesn't have the same weight
> sag.
> 
>    Amarid and kevlar fiber ropes are the least stretchy, but also expensive.  
> These are used quite a bit in sailboat racing, where
> stretchy ropes are usually undesirable (one wants to keep a sail exactly in 
> position against varying wind loads).  Naked versions of
> these lines are readily available, but check their UV resistance.  You may be 
> better off with a covered version.  If you do not want
> to use metallic guys or fiberglass rod, then use these lines.  This will 
> improve, but not eliminate, the issue of stretch and sag.
> Rope guying can not be used at some point, regardless of rope technology, 
> because it will just stretch too much compared to metallic
> alternatives.
> 
>    Most of the give in metallic guys comes from taking up the slack in the 
> guy.  For structures of typical amateur radio heights,
> the stack is small enough not to cause a relatively large cross-section tower 
> to move far enough to come out of column.
> Thin-diameter poles are less forgiving: (a) the guys can not be tensioned as 
> high because of the downward load placed on the
> vertical tubing; (b) a small displacement caused by taking up the sag is a 
> much larger % of the column diameter for a piece of
> tubing compared to a piece of tower section.
> 
>    These lines will not address your initial failure mode: the break in the 
> steel wire.  You should also take a close look to see
> why that break occurred.  Was it really a tumbleweed?  Or was the tumbleweed 
> merely the proximate cause, and that the steel wire was
> weakened by fatigue or construction technique?
> 
> -- Eric K3NA
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: topband-bounces@contesting.com
> [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Larry Molitor
> Sent: 2004 March 6 11:23
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Topband: Antennas, Guy Ropes, and High Winds
> 
> We had a "last winter storm" blow through here yesterday that destroyed my 90 
> foot irrigation tube vertical. Very frustrating, the
> thing made it all through the winter snow and ice when I was only able to 
> operate from the cold shop building. Now, 5 days after
> moving into the new house with a nice warm and cozy hamshack, the stupid 
> antenna falls over.
> 
> Anyway, the real reason for this post is to discuss materials used for guying 
> this type of structure.
> 
> This 90' tube was guyed at four levels with four guys at each level. The 
> lower three levels used double braided polyester rope from
> Syntehetic Textiles, Inc. The top level was also my top load consisting of 
> four 17 gauge steel fence wires with 650 pound baling
> twine down to the anchor points. The baling twine is dirt cheap and so I used 
> it temporarily while I optimized the top load
> structure. I intended to replace it with the polyester rope after tune-up was 
> completed, however it turned out that the twine was
> the strongest component in the guy system.
> 
> The actual failure was one of the steel wires. It broke near the point where 
> the twine was attached. I believe several things
> contributed to this failure. This polyester rope has more stetch than any 
> nylon rope I've ever used. I was constantly adjusting each
> guy to keep the vertical straight. The twine did not stretch at all. Thus, in 
> high winds, more of the side load was transfered to
> the top guy. In this case, additional wind load caused by a tumbleweed flying 
> 40 feet off the ground at 60+ MPH impacting the third
> level guy was too much for the wire. After the top wire broke, the aluminum 
> tube just folded over about two feet below the second
> level guy point at 42 feet.
> 
> All guy ropes are intact. If it wasn't for the stretch of the polyester, I 
> think the antenna would have survived even these extreme
> conditions. Now the question is how to fix the problem. In the past I guyed 
> permanent structures like this with steel wire of one
> sort or another and insulators at intervals. For temporary structures I 
> always used hardware store nylon rope. Never had a problem
> with either of these methods.
> 
> Steel wire and insulators are not useable for this antenna because of the 
> method of raising and lowering which would cause kinks and
> tangles in the wires. Baling twine is cheap and very strong, but I would have 
> to replace it at least once a year. Since it takes
> almost two days of work to re-string the guys, I'd rather not do this. I 
> suppose I could use a larger size of polyester rope, but
> even the smaller size I used cost more than the aluminum tubing for the 
> entire antenna did! What to do?
> 
> Comments, suggestions, and/or discussions are invited.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Larry - W7IUV
> 
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