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Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.

To: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <olinger@bellsouth.net>, <herbs@vitelcom.net>
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
From: "ZR" <zr@jeremy.mv.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2011 11:29:41 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Ive doubted some of the claims about fresh water swamps based only on 
personal experience. At a prior QTH I had them on 2 sides and extending to a 
mile or more and the 160 vertical "appeared" to play better then expected.
All that rotting vegetation had to be good for something and it rarely froze 
more than a few inches in the winter.

Carl
KM1H



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <olinger@bellsouth.net>
To: <herbs@vitelcom.net>
Cc: <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.


> Apologize for earlier half-done post. Spastic hit on send key.
>
> See http://www.fybush.com/sites/2005/site-051028.html for a Franklin and a
> nice article.
>
> For 1530 kHz, that's a *pair* of two vertical halfwaves in phase.  50 kW
> gives 3545.89 mV/m for broadcasting purposes. Note the relative lack of
> neighbors, and therefore lack of 24 hour miscellaneous diodic signal
> demodulation, talking window screens, permanently lit florescent bulbs, 
> etc.
>
> Note that this monster is not too far from 160m.  Think big and put an 
> only
> slightly downsized 160 version out in the salt shallows somewhere on the
> western side of Cheasapeake Bay.  Without any controversy whatsoever as to
> ground induction losses (zero) EZNEC says this would put 13.6 dbi gain
> toward Europe at 3.1 degree takeoff. Order of magnitude: three element 
> yagi.
>
> Just for comparison, if I drain Chesapeake Bay and fill it with concrete
> rubble and other urban debris (can do magical things in EZNEC) I get 5.0 
> dbi
> at 12.9 degrees. The full EZNEC preloaded table follows, filling 
> Chesapeake
> Bay with other dirt, or turning it into a fresh water lake.  These figures
> are *without* any ground field copper underneath, as it is not needed for 
> a
> current sink and I have no data on what kind of field might actually be
> employed.
>
> Urban debris:  5.0 @ 12.9d  (-5.0 dB from that angle takeoff over 
> seawater)
> Sandy          4.8 @ 10.7d  (-6.6)
> Rocky, poor    5.2 @ 10.6d  (-6.2)
> Average        5.4 @  9.0d  (-6.8)
> Forest         5.7 @  8.7d  (-6.6)
> Marshy         6.1 @  8.4d  (-6.0)
> Rich pastoral  6.8 @  8.1d  (-5.8)
> Very rich      9.1 @  7.1d  (-3.8)
> Fresh water    8.4 @  8.9d  (-3.8)
> Salt water    13.6 @  3.1d  (0)
>
> One can dream.   73, Guy.
>
> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 1:21 AM, Herb Schoenbohm <herbs@vitelcom.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> George,  Are you familiar with the Franklyn antenna design?
>> Some broadcasters swear by them and claim a 3 db increase over a 1/4
>> vertical radiator.
>>
>> Herb, KV4FZ
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
>
>
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UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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