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Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5
From: Dennis Ventler <w9jdj@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:05:43 -0600
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Dual Driven Element Quad
 
Back in the 80's or early 90's, I chatted with W6PU extensively about his dual 
driven element quad.  I had up a 5 element quad for 20 & 15M, 7 elements on 17 
- 12 - & 10M on a 45 foot boom at the time.  I did try his design but it was 
very difficult to build due to different electrical spacing on the various 
bands.  The proper delay on 20M would be a different electrical wavelength for 
each of the other bands.  Also, the matching was much more difficult with his 
arrangement.  After about a month of trial and error, I went back to the normal 
reflector- driven element - director arrangement.  I couldn't really tell of 
any improvement using his method.  I have used phased arrays on 40M & 80M most 
of my life but they have been two element systems utilizing a "T" Phasor in the 
shack for getting the optimum phase shift.  (ie. best front to back ratio).  If 
I would have used the "T" Phasor method rather than coaxial cable method for 
phasing, I may have seen what it could do by optim
 izing the proper phasing in the shack.
 
I will look into my antenna archive folders to see what info I might have from 
W6PU tomorrow.  If you are interested, I would be happy to copy the infor for 
you.  My Email address is w9jdj@hotmail.com and I would be more than happy to 
share any of my experiences with phased antennas.
 
73 DE W9JDJ



> From: towertalk-request@contesting.com> Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 61, 
> Issue 5> To: towertalk@contesting.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:00:40 -0500> 
> > Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to> towertalk@contesting.com> > To 
> subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit> 
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> or, via email, send a 
> message with subject or body 'help' to> towertalk-request@contesting.com> > 
> You can reach the person managing the list at> 
> towertalk-owner@contesting.com> > When replying, please edit your Subject 
> line so it is more specific> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."> > > 
> Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: Anyone everyone ever experiment making a DUAL 
> driven Quad> ? Cebit talkes about a Fat wire design. (Joe Giacobello)> 2. Re: 
> Force 12's Falcon J-6 (Pat Barthelow)> 3. AB577, AB621 (Jim Jarvis)> > > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> > 
> Message: 1> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 23:32:45 -0500> Fro
 m: Joe Giacobello <k2xx@swva.net>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Anyone everyone 
ever experiment making a DUAL> driven Quad ? Cebit talkes about a Fat wire 
design.> To: superberthaguy@verizon.net> Cc: 'KZ4USA' <videorov@verizon.net>, 
towertalk@contesting.com> Message-ID: <477B13ED.3000406@swva.net>> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > If my memory 
serves, it was W6PU. I worked him on 20M about two years > ago and we talked 
about his design. I think, but am not certain, that > he is still using the 
dual driven quad. I believe the article where he > discussed it in detail was 
from an issue of CQ in the 80s. He also said > that he got a lot of static 
regarding the underlying theoretical basis > for the design, but that it worked 
for him and he swore by the > performance. Frankly, the details are vague in my 
mind but I think the > design was based on the ZL Special.> > 73, Joe> K2XX> > 
Scott W3TX wrote:> > Hi Jack,> >> > I've seen a design like this before.
  It was developed by a W6. If my> > mind serves me correctly I believe that 
K3ZO built one and perfected it.> > The original article by the W6 had a few 
errors that ZO corrected> >> > 73, Scott W3TX> >> > 
_______________________________________________> >> >> >> > 
_______________________________________________> > TowerTalk mailing list> > 
TowerTalk@contesting.com> > 
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> >> >> > > > > > 
------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:34:13 
-0800> From: Pat Barthelow <aa6eg@hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force 
12's Falcon J-6> To: Alain Michel <opalockamishabob@yahoo.com>,> 
<towertalk@contesting.com>> Message-ID: 
<BAY103-W41BF338E51A54B2A64F540FB520@phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset="iso-8859-1"> > > Hello Alain,> > Welcome to the hobby. Lots of ways to 
have fun. Whether you like a particular antenna or not, depends on what 
pursuits you take up in your quest for fun and satisfaction i
 n the hobby. Your G5RV can play just fine forever, depending on whether you 
are looking for local or regional stateside contacts, or looking for long 
range, DX contacts. The two pursuits favor quite different antennas. > This 
reflector is a very good one, for answers to questions like yours> of how or 
whether to mount masts or towers or other antenna supports to> buildings. > (or 
any other antenna structure planning question.)> > 80 mph is serious wind, and 
to mount a 30 ft mast> (actually, I hope you mean tower, such as Rohn 25, as 
opposed to a> mast) in 80 mph is non trivial, and certainly far beyond a couple 
of> u-bolts through the eaves; even a purpose built wall bracket needs> 
substantial structural backing (engineering) before screwing it to a> side wall 
of a house. So, to help you, many wizards, are accessible> here on Tower talk. 
You just have to narrow down your goals, as you> begin your adventure in ham 
radio, to ask the right questions.> > > If budgets, or space l
 imit your options, and you are after DX, height is what you want to invest in, 
if you have horizontal antennas. Try to get more than > 1/2 wavelength, 
preferably 1 wavelength, which for 20 meters is around 60 ft.> If you had and 
compared two rotatable dipoles, one at 30ft, and one at 60 ft, > and you were 
listening for European Stations from California around sunset, or in the 
morning, there would be a (probably) a profound difference in what you hear. 
Once up at 50-60 ft or so, even simple wire antennas work DX very well.> > In 
your case, being discreet, points possibly to a near-ground mounted vertical, 
which finds the long range contacts much more easily, and through a totally 
different mechanism than horizontal antennas.> > Welcome, and enjoy....> > All 
the Best, 73,> Pat Barthelow aa6eg@hotmail.com> http://www.jamesburgdish.org> 
Subscribe: http://bambi.net/jamesburg.html> Jamesburg Earth Station Moon Bounce 
Team> > > > > > Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 19:46:12 -0800> > From: o
 palockamishabob@yahoo.com> > To: towertalk@contesting.com> > Subject: 
[TowerTalk] Force 12's Falcon J-6> > > > Hello All,> > > > I'm new to ham 
radio. I'm very interested in hearing more about this rotatable dipole. 
Currently, I've got a 204' G5RV "flat top" up about 35' and am pleased with 
it's performance.> > > > I was wondering if anyone on this list [or knows 
anyone who has one] can give me some reviews on how well it performs; EHAM 
currently has zero. Current plans are being made to place it on a 20'-30' mast 
and attach same to the eave on the east side of the house. A small tv antenna 
rotator will take care of that chore.> > > > What is the best way to attach a 
2" mast to the eave? We've lived here for over 10 years and the winds will gust 
to 80 MPH. How should I [or should I?] guy the top 10' of the mast?> > > > My 
wife and I have over three acres of property, but we are in a CC&R area. Most 
neighbors don't look up, but there are one or two who might blow the whistle 
 if they even catch a glimpse of anything out of the ordinary. > > > > The east 
side of the house is about 200' from the street, but any antenna up higher than 
a 25' avocado tree is flirting with danger. I understand that the Falcon can be 
painted; this is great news and may be necessary, in my case.> > > > Any help, 
suggestions or recommendations will be most gratefully received. > > > > Many 
thanks for taking the time to respond!> > > > Alan...KI6HPO> > > > > > 
---------------------------------> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your 
homepage.> > _______________________________________________> > > > > > > > 
_______________________________________________> > TowerTalk mailing list> > 
TowerTalk@contesting.com> > 
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> > > 
------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 10:34:02 
-0500> From: Jim Jarvis <jimjarvis@optonline.net>> Subject: [TowerTalk] AB577, 
AB621> To: towertalk@contesting.com> Message-ID: <C
 3A1191A.160A%jimjarvis@optonline.net>> Content-Type: text/plain; 
charset=US-ASCII> > > > TT:> > I have found a source of some spare parts for 
the military pushup masts> which some know as 'rocket launchers'. It is a small 
company in NJ, which> specializes in short run work for the military, and has 
been a supplier to> Ontario Surplus. > > Someone called me last week, looking 
for ab577 guy rings. I didn't take> note of his call. This could be a source.> 
> If folks think it's material, I'll post the company link. Else, msg me> 
directly for info.> > 73/n2ea> > > > > ------------------------------> > 
_______________________________________________> TowerTalk mailing list> 
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> > > End of TowerTalk 
Digest, Vol 61, Issue 5> ****************************************
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