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Re: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic welds

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic welds
From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 22:31:29 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 4/17/2011 10:16 PM, Jim W7RY wrote:
> Oh! And I see Hargar makes a rebar clamp!
>
> http://www.harger.com/products/idx.cfm?subc4id=256&p=1&oiid=824&thid=690&footid=0&footinfoid=0
>

They'd probably work well in concrete, but I've never seen one of these 
hold up for more than two years "at most" in our soil.

Typically you can really reef on them so they are plenty tight and in a 
year you can move them with your fingers.

73

Roger (K8RI)

> 73
> Jim W7RY
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jim W7RY"<w7ry@inbox.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:07 PM
> To: "Mat Eshpeter"<kk1c@live.com>;<towertalk@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic welds
>
>> The problem is that strap can decay and degrade over time directly in some
>> types of earth AND As you have pointed out, connection to strap is
>> problematic at best unless it is also welded (brazed using silver bearing
>> welding) The only place I recommend strap is between the external
>> grounding electrode system and the building coax entrance panel. Harger
>> http://www.harger.com/  makes a special welded system to transition the
>> strap to a copper bar and then it's cad welded to the #2AWG bare tinned
>> grounding system.
>>
>> Most communications sites (cellular and public safety) use #2 AWG tinned
>> underground conductors that are exothermically welded together. Some
>> Federal Government installations may have specifications that require
>> larger wire. But over the years, solid tined wire has proven to be the
>> best.
>>
>>
>> 73
>> Jim W7RY
>> Motorola Solutions
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Mat Eshpeter
>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:34 AM
>> To: w7ry@inbox.com ; towertalk@contesting.com
>> Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic
>> welds
>>
>>
>> Jim - what about the inductance of wire? The reading I have done strongly
>> suggests that lightning is better handled with solid strap because of its
>> low inductance versus wire. Lightning is supposed to be broadbanded with
>> most energy centered around 1MHz so strap is supposed to be "king" for the
>> purposes of dissipating lightning.
>>
>> 73,
>> mat
>>
>>> From: w7ry@inbox.com
>>> To: kk1c@live.com; towertalk@contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic
>>> welds
>>> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 07:58:27 -0700
>>>
>>> I would put some #2AWG tinned solid in the foundation and not rely on the
>>> rebar.
>>>
>>> I have used a clamp type unit to clamp the copper strap to the ground
>>> rod.
>>>
>>> If it's lightning your concerned with, I would not use strap. Stick with
>>> #2AWG tinned bare copper, copper clad rods and exothermic attachment.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Jim W7RY
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> From: "Mat Eshpeter"<kk1c@live.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 7:24 AM
>>> To:<towertalk@contesting.com>
>>> Subject: [TowerTalk] grounding quesitons: Ufer, strap, exothermic welds
>>>
>>>> I am about to pour concrete for the base of my HDX589 tower. I am going
>>>> to
>>>> go with a Ufer ground as well as the Polyphaser recommended eight 75'
>>>> radials with multiple ground rods (8' rods every 16'). Location is on
>>>> top
>>>> of a 1600' ridge in WV and lightning is a very real concern. My QRZ web
>>>> page gives a feel for the location.
>>>>
>>>> To build the Ufer ground, I am thinking about connecting a single bare
>>>> 2/0
>>>> stranded copper wire to the rebar. Questions:
>>>> 1) is one enough?
>>>> 2) how do I properly connect the copper to the rebar? Is exothermic
>>>> weld
>>>> the only way? Any problem with dissimilar metals?
>>>> 3) how should the copper exit the base slab - above grade or below
>>>> grade?
>>>>
>>>> Also, seems that copper strap is the preferred ground material for
>>>> connecting rods together. Will 0.032" thick strap have significantly
>>>> better longevity than 0.022" strap? I am refering to the strap sold by
>>>> Georgia Copper. Copper is expensive and I don't want to invest in
>>>> copper
>>>> that won't add any value to my installation.
>>>>
>>>> Where can I find exothermic weld products to connect copper strap to
>>>> 5/8"
>>>> copper clad ground rods? I am exhausted reading Harger, Erico,
>>>> Terraweld
>>>> info, and can only find wire-to-ground rod products, no strap-to-rod
>>>> products.
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Mat
>>>> KK1C
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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