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Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: antenna choices for K4XS

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: antenna choices for K4XS
From: Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:36:37 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 4/13/15 9:12 AM, Bry Carling AF4K wrote:
Very good point. I do not know whether these deep scientific studies were done 
at NEAR
FIELD to the antennas or at distances of hundreds of miles away.

For HF antennas you don't have to be hundreds of miles away.. The rule of thumb for "field is sufficiently plane that the gain is correct within a few tenths of a dB" is that the field be flat to within 1/10th wavelength over the aperture of the antenna.

For a yagi, the "aperture" is probably the length of the boom, rather than the length of the elements. Or maybe the diagonal (e.g. twice the turning radius).

THis is the origin of the 2*D^2/lambda guideline which really only works for fairly narrow beamwidth antennas and dishes..

If you're a few 1000 meters away, I think you can get fairly accurate gain numbers, if you account for ground reflections. There's two ways to do that: move the antenna (or the probe) up and down several wavelengths and take data at multiple points. From that you can calculate the ground bounce (even if the antennas are only a few hundred meters apart)

The other way is to use a comparison antenna with known gain (e.g. a dipole) mounted at the same location as the AUT. There could be a freak specular reflection that causes weird results, but I think you'd see that as you did your azimuth pattern.



This is what the report alluded to earlier in the thread did. I think their methodology is basically sound. It's a heck of a lot of work to collect this kind of data: you have to beg borrow or buy the antenna, then assemble it, then hoist it up, then take it down, dismantle it, and give it back to where you got it.

The actual measurement part is easy.

If someone had a stack of 10 antennas already assembled that they wanted to test, an 80 foot boom bucket truck with a suitable rotator in the bucket would be the easy way.



The articles / books claim that these yagoi beams have virtually no gain at 
all. I wonder
whhow NEC would stack up against their measurements? It's in a boob, or article 
so it MUST
be true. I am just left pondering the same as you - trying to decide where ALL 
that extra
power is disappearing to...

Hmm, I don't think the articles claim no gain, at least if they're showing actual measured data. In fact time after time, yagi antennas come in reasonably close to their modeled gain (within a dB or two), and an antenna that doesn't show that kind of gain in a test has something suspicious about the design.





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