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Re: [TowerTalk] stretched EHS

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] stretched EHS
From: Steve Maki <lists@oakcom.org>
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2022 09:57:48 -0400
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Grant,

Thanks for thinking about this, really appreciate it.

We did not notice a *bend* in the wire while it was loose - however, our main concern was getting all the guys back in service and getting the tower straight again before anything Really Bad were to happen. I'm looking at my photos which I shot from the anchor looking along the wire, and don't see anything.

I'm confident that there was no grip slippage or thimble collapse at ground level. Did not get a look at the tower end of the wire. The guys have no midspan connections.

Understand about the un-twist phenomenon, which I think is why guys loosen up after construction and need to be re-tensioned at least once or twice later on.

I'm thinking I'll recommend the guy replacement and after some period of time a P&T. All the guy wires seem a little loose - all we did was match the existing by feel (which I'm pretty good at after all the years).

Thanks again.

-Steve K8LX

On 10/13/2022 9:08 AM, Grant Saviers wrote:
Steve,

I got to thinking more about your question - am wondering what you decided.

I assume you measured the small (0.2%) change in length when resetting the guy to the initial specified tension.  That would confirm the actual inelastic stretch, or some combination of thimble collapse, grip or clip slip. Then if there are insulators, those repeated.

Also wondering if there was any slack tension bending deformation at the tree impact site on the EHS?  That would be a sign of exceeding the yield point of some of the EHS fibers.  Pretty much a "replace it" observation.

EHS also having a twist will want to un-twist (apparent stretch) when under tension beyond initial setting and suspect at high tension that behaves as a one time apparent "stretch" and does not relax when tension is removed.  EHS has a slow twist for this reason.  Another variable not well defined, and lacking any data I could find for EHS.  Way back for my Phillystran guy project, I did come across some info re old straight fiber Phillystran vs new twisted which showed the apparent higher elasticity of the twisted.

btw comments like "EHS doesn't stretch" are wrong.  The modulus of elasticity of soft vs very hard steel is essentially the same, thus for a given force a piece of steel stretches the same soft or super hard. What is different is the yield point and how sharp and short that transition is to the break point.  This is widely misunderstood.

Hope that is helpful.


Grant KZ1W

On 10/12/2022 16:48, Grant Saviers wrote:
6" over 360ft = 0.139%.  I think that is less than the spec initial pretension stretch for EHS.  I couldn't find the yield spec or stress strain curve but it's likely around 90% of break.

However what you don't know is how much this guy was stretched in the past.

Given the cost to replace vs liability for guy failure, this seems like a time to be conservative and replace the guy.

Grant KZ1W



On 10/12/2022 11:29, Steve Maki wrote:
I have a question for the materials crew here. I'm writing up a job report.

Our crew went to a site where a huge tree had fallen on the two lower guys of a 360' tower. We carefully (well as carefully as we could) slacked off & disconnected one wire at a time, threw it over the tree, and reconnected it. At that point the site was ready for the tree crew to come.

It was obvious that one of the wires (3/8" EHS) had stretched a few inches. There were enough unused threads in the turnbuckle to enable a good snug wire again.

I'm recommending that the guy wire be replaced, but was wondering how much strength in roundabout numbers is lost in this scenario?

TIA

-Steve K8LX
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