[Amps] RE: Solid State HF amps and kits

[Steve Katz]

It seems that Jim N6OTQ has gone rather silent since I offered him an order
for 1000 boards at $2/each (which was a very serious offer).

-WB2WIK/6



> 	Thanks for the post Steve,
> 
> 	Where is Circuit Xpress located?  Can you give me some contact info?
> 	[Steve Katz]  Of course.  I thought everybody knew these guys, they
> are very popular for short runs of high quality boards:
> 
> 	http://www.circuitexpress.com
> 
> 	229 S. Clark Drive
> 	Tempe, AZ 85281
> 	(480) 966-5894
> 
> 	Been using them for years.  When I go into "production" quantities
> (in the thousands), I usually go offshore to Taiwan, Korea, Singapore,
> etc. where prices are lower but deliveries are longer.  Circuit Express
> turns boards in 5 days, standard lead time.  
> 
> 	For layout, I use ORCAD.
> 
> 	73 de Steve, WB2WIK/6
> 
> 
> 
> 	Can you recommend an inexpensive layout program suitable for both
> 	analog and digital layouts?
> 
> 	Thanks,
> 	Michael
> 
> 	--- Steve Katz <stevek@jmr.com> wrote:
> 	> Jim, I have some comments and questions contained below.  If you'd
> 	> answer
> 	> them, perhaps I and other readers might have a better
> understanding
> 	> of what
> 	> you're trying to say.
> 	> 
> 	> 73 de Steve, WB2WIK/6
> 	> 
> 	> 
> 	> > Do you know what fabricated PCBs cost, even in short runs?
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  I think I do.  I use Circuit XPress for short
> runs,
> 	> and after paying the $500 setup charge per layout for Gerber file
> 	> transfer,
> 	> a PCB the size and quality of the AR347 amp board is about
> $50/each
> 	> for the
> 	> first 10 or so, diminishing to about $25/each in 100+ lot runs,
> 	> assuming
> 	> high grade FR4 and 2 oz copper, tinned, plus silk screening.
> 	> > With the art work in hand, I could go to a custom board house
> and
> 	> have
> 	> > one-off boards custom-made for less than what CCI is asking.  In
> a
> 	> > quantity
> 	> > run, the price would fall well below two dollars a board very
> 	> quickly.
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  If you can get me these boards for $2/each,
> seriously,
> 	> I'd like to place an order with you today for 1000 pcs.
> 	> 
> 	> > And -- did you happen to check the price of the active devices
> for
> 	> that
> 	> > 1000-watt CCI amp?  You probably will not believe me when I tell
> 	> you that
> 	> > it's over $900.
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  If you buy all the parts one-off, I'm sure
> you're
> 	> right.  But CCI didn't design the amp, Motorola did, and I think
> they
> 	> sell
> 	> the BOM pretty reasonably.
> 	> 
> 	> > On the other hand -- most of the RFE amps use the 2SC2879
> device,
> 	> which
> 	> > sells in small-handful quantities at about $15. each.  Properly
> 	> biased and
> 	> > heatsinked, these are good for 100 watts each all day long.
> 	> > 
> 	> > So on the one hand you've got CCI selling amps made from
> expensive,
> 	> > hard-to-power, hard-to-cool Motorola devices, and on the other
> hand
> 	> you've
> 	> > got RFE selling amps made from cheap, easy-to-power,
> easy-to-cool
> 	> Japanese
> 	> > devices.*
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  I don't understand the "hard to cool" comment.
> Is the
> 	> device Rthj-c higher?  What's the Rthj-c of the 2SC2879?
> 	> 
> 	> > The RFE amp goes straight out the door and under the dash of a
> semi
> 	> for
> 	> > about 20% of the cost of the CCI amp -- which requires some
> 	> relatively
> 	> > sophisticated work to power up.
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  All I can say is the obvious, which is: "If
> it's so
> 	> great, why don't they just apply for certification?"  It's not
> 	> expensive to
> 	> do so.  They'd have to lock out 22+ MHz per CFR47 requirements,
> but
> 	> could
> 	> include a retrofit kit to put 12/10m back in for licensed
> amateurs,
> 	> same way
> 	> everybody else does.  I don't get their gripe.
> 	> 
> 	> > Are you starting to get a clue about the political and societal
> 	> > ramifications of the RFE decision?**
> 	> 	[Steve Katz]  Not really.
> 	> 
> 	> 
> 	> > Jim N6OTQ
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
> 	> > 
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