[Amps] TL922 Power Plugs

Carl km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Thu Nov 5 11:55:59 PST 2009 

I think the answer is pretty simple.

The 240V comes to the panel and the ground at both ends is marginal at best. 
when running multiple 120V circuits off the panel the balance is not perfect 
and the resistance in the poor grounds causes a voltage drop, especially 
when a heavy 240V load comes on such as the deep well pump, the electric 
range, any ham amp, Jenn Air, etc.  The drop in the #12's is less than #14, 
especially in longer runs since this house is 80' long with a full basement, 
2 upper levels and a walk in attic that houses a couple of the heavy draw 
120V vintage stations plus thermostat controlled 240V baseboard heaters when 
needed.

In addition I believe the 240V conductors from the pole are undersized since 
they werent changed when I upgraded to a 200A panel from the old 100A 
service. The utility company told me it didnt need an upgrade 20 years ago. 
Maybe I should talk to the new owners. Plus Im at the end of the pole pig 
run.

Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Roger" <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>
Cc: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs


>
>
> Gary Patterson wrote:
>> I am confused,   does return current actually go through "dirt" ground 
>> and cause dimming of lights in a house.  I can't get my mind around 
>> that???
>>
>>
> Me either.  Here, the neutral comes in from the pole with the two 110
> VAC lines (220 volts between them) That neutral is grounded/earthed at
> both ends. In the house the neutral ties to the neutral and ground buss
> in the main breaker panel, which is then tied to to the 1, 2, or 3
> required ground rods. You could remove the ground lead to the ground
> rods entirely and the electrical system would never know the difference
> under normal circumstances.
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>
>>> From: km1h at jeremy.mv.com
>>> To: n7fcf at hctc.com; amps at contesting.com
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:09:57 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>
>>> In NH the homeowner can do all his own wiring subject to inspection; 
>>> this
>>> includes new construction. When I moved here in 1989 I added a huge 
>>> addition
>>> to an 1830's farmhouse which I pretty much gutted and rebuilt with
>>> insulation, low E double pane windows, etc. The basement of the addition 
>>> was
>>> over wired for multi bench ham use plus other benches for building amps, 
>>> and
>>> repairs.
>>>
>>> The complete house was wired with #12 to the 120V wall outlets which are
>>> standard 15A variety. I did that to minimize dimming which is common on 
>>> this
>>> hilltop due to poor grounds.....rock makes a poor conductor. The ground
>>> rods are a pair of spaced 8' driven at a shallow angle since solid ledge 
>>> is
>>> less than 2' down. The best I could do is place them under the roof drip
>>> zone.
>>>
>>> My guide was the 1987 NEC manual which was current at the time.
>>>
>>> The inspector is a local excavator contractor who never had an 
>>> electricians
>>> license. In fact he still holds the position. I think we just broke 13K 
>>> in
>>> population.
>>>
>>> Later I bonded all the heating and domestic water copper pipes together 
>>> with
>>> #6 and tied those into the panel ground. Distances were all within 6' of 
>>> the
>>> panel.
>>>
>>> Then of course comes the ham equipment grounds, feedline grounds (all 
>>> CATV
>>> or Andrew hardline), tower grounds ( I have 4 up to 250' away all guyed
>>> which means 3 more grounds per tower), vertical radial grounds (80 & 
>>> 160M 4
>>> Squares), Beverage grounds ( there are 7 and the common hardline feed is
>>> 750' away) and whatever else which seems to throw the NEC manual out the
>>> window.
>>>
>>> You can see why many of us are confused and pretty much ignore all the 
>>> NEC
>>> nonsense after the 1987 or earlier revisions.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>> KM1H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jim Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
>>> To: "Alex Eban" <alexeban at gmail.com>; <jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com>;
>>> <amps at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I spent my working life wireing and the later half as a state 
>>>> electrical
>>>> inspector. I am a certified master electrician and national;y certified
>>>> electrical inspector retired since 2000.
>>>> reading some of these post's, although there isn't a thing wrong with
>>>> doing
>>>> your own wiring, I would heartily recomend you have your work inspected 
>>>> by
>>>> the local electrical inspector. When it comes to bonding and grounding,
>>>> what
>>>> you don't know can kill you.
>>>> Jim
>>>> N7FCF
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Alex Eban" <alexeban at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is true!
>>>> The point to watch, in my opinion, is to take the branch out from the 
>>>> main
>>>> panel BEFORE the GFI, if used. A local GFI can then be added at the 
>>>> remote
>>>> location and the local ground strapped there to the neutral coming from
>>>> the
>>>> main inlet. An added advantage of this is that if the local GFI trips 
>>>> you
>>>> don't have to run to the house to lift it.
>>>> Alex 4Z5KS
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: amps-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] 
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 5:10 AM
>>>> To: amps at contesting.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>>
>>>> Mark,
>>>> The neutral and ground must be bonded together at the main panel as 
>>>> stated
>>>> on the reflector many times. The ground, and neutral bus are often one 
>>>> in
>>>> the same in a residential panel.
>>>>
>>>> The detached barn requires it's own service. This service must have 
>>>> it's
>>>> own
>>>> grounding electrodes to limit the impedance to ground at this location,
>>>> and
>>>> the neutral must be bonded to ground here.
>>>>
>>>> If the barn service panel is fed from the house service panel, You must
>>>> also
>>>> bond the services together.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Smith, EEKQ6UV
>>>>
>>>> --- On Tue, 11/3/09, Mark Robinson <markrob at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Mark Robinson <markrob at mindspring.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>> To: "Ian Hill - K8MM" <ihk8mm at charter.net>
>>>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 8:32 AM
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My Neutral and Ground is connected at the main panel but also at the 
>>>> barn
>>>> 300 feet away. I am running a 3 wire 100 amp 240v power 4 00 aluminum 
>>>> line
>>>> to the barn from a 100 amp 240v breaker located in my main distribution
>>>> box.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't like the idea of a gnd neutral tie that far away from the 
>>>> barn,
>>>> so
>>>> I tied them together at the barn with a second ground rod located at 
>>>> the
>>>> barn. Is that such a bad idea?
>>>>
>>>> Mark
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 9.0.698 / Virus Database: 270.14.50/2481 - Release Date: 
>>>> 11/04/09
>>>> 11:51:00
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
>> http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

More information about the Amps mailing list