[Amps] TL922 Power Plugs

Thu Nov 5 11:12:03 PST 2009


Gary Patterson wrote:
> I am confused,   does return current actually go through "dirt" ground and cause dimming of lights in a house.  I can't get my mind around that???
>
>   
Me either.  Here, the neutral comes in from the pole with the two 110 
VAC lines (220 volts between them) That neutral is grounded/earthed at 
both ends. In the house the neutral ties to the neutral and ground buss 
in the main breaker panel, which is then tied to to the 1, 2, or 3 
required ground rods. You could remove the ground lead to the ground 
rods entirely and the electrical system would never know the difference 
under normal circumstances.

73

Roger (K8RI)
>  
>
> Gary
>  
>   
>> From: km1h at jeremy.mv.com
>> To: n7fcf at hctc.com; amps at contesting.com
>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:09:57 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>
>> In NH the homeowner can do all his own wiring subject to inspection; this 
>> includes new construction. When I moved here in 1989 I added a huge addition 
>> to an 1830's farmhouse which I pretty much gutted and rebuilt with 
>> insulation, low E double pane windows, etc. The basement of the addition was 
>> over wired for multi bench ham use plus other benches for building amps, and 
>> repairs.
>>
>> The complete house was wired with #12 to the 120V wall outlets which are 
>> standard 15A variety. I did that to minimize dimming which is common on this 
>> hilltop due to poor grounds.....rock makes a poor conductor. The ground 
>> rods are a pair of spaced 8' driven at a shallow angle since solid ledge is 
>> less than 2' down. The best I could do is place them under the roof drip 
>> zone.
>>
>> My guide was the 1987 NEC manual which was current at the time.
>>
>> The inspector is a local excavator contractor who never had an electricians 
>> license. In fact he still holds the position. I think we just broke 13K in 
>> population.
>>
>> Later I bonded all the heating and domestic water copper pipes together with 
>> #6 and tied those into the panel ground. Distances were all within 6' of the 
>> panel.
>>
>> Then of course comes the ham equipment grounds, feedline grounds (all CATV 
>> or Andrew hardline), tower grounds ( I have 4 up to 250' away all guyed 
>> which means 3 more grounds per tower), vertical radial grounds (80 & 160M 4 
>> Squares), Beverage grounds ( there are 7 and the common hardline feed is 
>> 750' away) and whatever else which seems to throw the NEC manual out the 
>> window.
>>
>> You can see why many of us are confused and pretty much ignore all the NEC 
>> nonsense after the 1987 or earlier revisions.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jim Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
>> To: "Alex Eban" <alexeban at gmail.com>; <jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com>; 
>> <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 3:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>
>>
>>     
>>> I spent my working life wireing and the later half as a state electrical
>>> inspector. I am a certified master electrician and national;y certified
>>> electrical inspector retired since 2000.
>>> reading some of these post's, although there isn't a thing wrong with 
>>> doing
>>> your own wiring, I would heartily recomend you have your work inspected by
>>> the local electrical inspector. When it comes to bonding and grounding, 
>>> what
>>> you don't know can kill you.
>>> Jim
>>> N7FCF
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Alex Eban" <alexeban at gmail.com>
>>> To: <jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 11:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>
>>>
>>> This is true!
>>> The point to watch, in my opinion, is to take the branch out from the main
>>> panel BEFORE the GFI, if used. A local GFI can then be added at the remote
>>> location and the local ground strapped there to the neutral coming from 
>>> the
>>> main inlet. An added advantage of this is that if the local GFI trips you
>>> don't have to run to the house to lift it.
>>> Alex 4Z5KS
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: amps-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:amps-bounces at contesting.com] On
>>> Behalf Of jimsmitheguard-a at yahoo.com
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 5:10 AM
>>> To: amps at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>> The neutral and ground must be bonded together at the main panel as stated
>>> on the reflector many times. The ground, and neutral bus are often one in
>>> the same in a residential panel.
>>>
>>> The detached barn requires it's own service. This service must have it's 
>>> own
>>> grounding electrodes to limit the impedance to ground at this location, 
>>> and
>>> the neutral must be bonded to ground here.
>>>
>>> If the barn service panel is fed from the house service panel, You must 
>>> also
>>> bond the services together.
>>>
>>> Jim Smith, EEKQ6UV
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 11/3/09, Mark Robinson <markrob at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Mark Robinson <markrob at mindspring.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] TL922 Power Plugs
>>> To: "Ian Hill - K8MM" <ihk8mm at charter.net>
>>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009, 8:32 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> My Neutral and Ground is connected at the main panel but also at the barn
>>> 300 feet away. I am running a 3 wire 100 amp 240v power 4 00 aluminum line
>>> to the barn from a 100 amp 240v breaker located in my main distribution 
>>> box.
>>>
>>> I didn't like the idea of a gnd neutral tie that far away from the barn, 
>>> so
>>> I tied them together at the barn with a second ground rod located at the
>>> barn. Is that such a bad idea?
>>>
>>> Mark
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