[Amps] Amps readers...NOT
Herzog
herzog at frontiernet.net
Mon Feb 1 19:13:38 PST 2010
Who wants the opinions of someone who can't say his subject, and instead
expects me to read and re-read the same stuff over and over in repeats.
Example follows: Let the guilty be insulted...K2LB
====================
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Jim Barber)
> 2. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
> 3. Re: HB amps (Bill, W6WRT)
> 4. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Paul Christensen)
> 5. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
> 6. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
> 7. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Bill, W6WRT)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:14:31 -0800
> From: Jim Barber <audioguy at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: Frank T Brady <franktbrady at comcast.net>
> Cc: amps at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672817.7060000 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Latency with the Flex may or may not be a problem depending on the PC
> and the care used to configure it.
>
> I make no claim to being a CW op, so it would be better to have the
> discussion with someone that is and has had success with high-speed CW.
> There are plenty of ops that both have and haven't, and your odds of
> success will be strongly tilted depending on your PC/OS expertise and
> attention to detail. No one will deny that the issue is complex.
>
> Also - improving CW operation has been a priority for the developers in
> the upcoming software release. Subscribing to the Flex "Edge" reflector
> will raise your noise floor substantially, but if you're good at
> separating problem users from real problems you can build a picture of
> the truth.
>
> My bottom line on the issue is that if I had been expecting a stellar
> out-of-box CW experience I would have been disappointed. If I knew then
> what I know now I'd be "ok" with it and looking forward to the next
> software release. Your mileage will vary with your expectations.
>
> HTH,
>
> 73,
> Jim, N7CXI (Flex 5K owner)
>
>
>
> Frank T Brady wrote:
>> Jim,
>> That's the first I've heard of latency problems.
>> This is why I was hoping to get some discussion going, because K3 and
>> SDR owners are invariably sold on their eqpt but haven't compared the two.
>> tx and 73
>>
>>
>> Jim Dawson wrote:
>>> I recently became excited about the Flex-5000 but after reading a bunch of comments
>>> about it's poor performance with sending CW because of latency, I have cooled my
>>> enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> Jim - K9DD
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:14:34 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B67281A.7080305 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Bill,
> I browsed the WinKey site and it didn't pop right out as to how/why
> WinKey solves SDR latency.
> Could you expand on that just a little?
> tx frank w0ecs
>
>
> Bill, W6WRT wrote:
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:29:25 -0600, "Jim Dawson"
>> <jdawson at jasystems.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I recently became excited about the Flex-5000 but after reading a bunch of comments
>>> about it's poor performance with sending CW because of latency, I have cooled my
>>> enthusiasm.
>>>
>> REPLY:
>>
>> Some Windows programs have the same problem.
>>
>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it.
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:15:51 -0800
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] HB amps
> To: <amps at contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <51aem51ge0escr2jbj9u5vnjc3ejoniplu at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:19:35 -0800, "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom at telus.net>
> wrote:
>
>> ## 1 cubic ft, 120 lb hypersil pole pigs are also a dime a doz. [4160/4800 variety] .
>
> REPLY:
>
> I'll take one. The penny is in the mail - keep the change. :-)
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:17:53 -0500
> From: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac at arrl.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: <amps at contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <77C10307A7A84D948DB01D9E8B4105DB at DBTOA000>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>> Some Windows programs have the same problem.
>>
>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it.
>
> The keyed element timing isn't the issue with the Flex -- it's the T/R
> turn-around time under the Windows O/S. According to the QST Product
> Review, the Flex-5000A switched in ~ 60 ms from Rx to Tx, and back to Rx.
> That's an eternity in my world. For comparison, the IC-7700 is about 26 ms,
> and the K3 is 36 ms. But even with such slow transitions, the Flex is still
> capable of very good element timing that does not need WinKey's help.
>
> No doubt the Flex T/R speed is a function of the PC's capabilities, but as
> SDR hardware and firmware technology progresses, more of the DSP processing
> function needs to be jettisoned from PC software to get back to reasonably
> fast T/R timing.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:20:24 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672978.4040701 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Jim,
> That's the third time I've heard "don't expect good CW operation out of
> the box" (on air comments).
> So, it sounds like a K3 would be a lot less trouble - maybe SDR needs
> S/W 'geeks' to fully utilize features.
> tx and 73 frank w0ecs
>
> Jim Barber wrote:
>> Latency with the Flex may or may not be a problem depending on the PC
>> and the care used to configure it.
>>
>> I make no claim to being a CW op, so it would be better to have the
>> discussion with someone that is and has had success with high-speed
>> CW. There are plenty of ops that both have and haven't, and your odds
>> of success will be strongly tilted depending on your PC/OS expertise
>> and attention to detail. No one will deny that the issue is complex.
>>
>> Also - improving CW operation has been a priority for the developers
>> in the upcoming software release. Subscribing to the Flex "Edge"
>> reflector will raise your noise floor substantially, but if you're
>> good at separating problem users from real problems you can build a
>> picture of the truth.
>>
>> My bottom line on the issue is that if I had been expecting a stellar
>> out-of-box CW experience I would have been disappointed. If I knew
>> then what I know now I'd be "ok" with it and looking forward to the
>> next software release. Your mileage will vary with your expectations.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> 73,
>> Jim, N7CXI (Flex 5K owner)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:28:03 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672B43.8060700 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Paul,
> If "more of the DSP processing function needs to be jettisoned from PC
> software"
> where would that functionality be moved to - and at what expense?
> frank w0ecs
>
> Paul Christensen wrote:
>>> Some Windows programs have the same problem.
>>>
>>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it.
>>>
>> The keyed element timing isn't the issue with the Flex -- it's the T/R
>> turn-around time under the Windows O/S. According to the QST Product
>> Review, the Flex-5000A switched in ~ 60 ms from Rx to Tx, and back to Rx.
>> That's an eternity in my world. For comparison, the IC-7700 is about 26 ms,
>> and the K3 is 36 ms. But even with such slow transitions, the Flex is still
>> capable of very good element timing that does not need WinKey's help.
>>
>> No doubt the Flex T/R speed is a function of the PC's capabilities, but as
>> SDR hardware and firmware technology progresses, more of the DSP processing
>> function needs to be jettisoned from PC software to get back to reasonably
>> fast T/R timing.
>>
>> Paul, W9AC
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:53:29 -0800
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Message-ID: <krbem55549ig8kj3pm1ti8egkjr7fdspfj at 4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:14:34 -0500, Frank T Brady
> <franktbrady at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>> I browsed the WinKey site and it didn't pop right out as to how/why
>> WinKey solves SDR latency.
>> Could you expand on that just a little?
>> tx frank w0ecs
>
> REPLY:
>
> I don't claim to be any great expert, but I'll try. The problem with
> Windows software generating the keying signals is that Windows does
> multitasking and that can upset the timing of the dots and dashes, and
> of course timing is crucial.
>
> When using WinKey, the Windows program simply sends a command to
> WinKey that says in effect "send the letter A" for example, and WinKey
> itself generates a correctly timed keying signal.
>
> If my explanation is incorrect, someone jump in and correct me.
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> End of Amps Digest, Vol 86, Issue 5
> ***********************************
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