[Amps] Fuses
Carl
km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Sun Jan 9 06:44:33 PST 2011
For some reason they are often ignored in linear service altho moderately
popular for AM and as modulators. They do well at 813 voltages in GG service
and running 2-4 would make some economical power.
I have an old FAA tuned line VHF amp using them that I converted to 2M
decades ago as an FM amp in contests, cant seem to even put a dent into
their emission. The almost free NIB spares are just gathering dust.
Carl
KM1H
----- Original Message -----
From: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>; "Roger (K8RI)" <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>;
<amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
> Are 4-125A's used much anymore? I've accumulated several and a couple of
> sockets. Two appear to be brand new one a JAN, both Eimac and one that
> appears used.
> Jim
> N7FCF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>; "Roger (K8RI)"
> <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>
>
>> Never mind the blessings, just send money or your first born.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
>> To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>; "Roger (K8RI)" <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>;
>> <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 9:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>
>>
>>> Oh bless you your worthiness
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>> To: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>; "Roger (K8RI)"
>>> <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 5:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>
>>>
>>>>I like it when the commoners react fast.
>>>>
>>>> You may carry on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
>>>> To: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>; "Roger (K8RI)"
>>>> <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 8:09 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Excuse us your royal highness
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>>>>> To: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>; "Roger (K8RI)"
>>>>> <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 4:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you two get back to earth and keep it somewhat relative to ham
>>>>>> amps in the under 20KW range (-;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carl
>>>>>> KM1H
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "James R Carr" <n7fcf at hctc.com>
>>>>>> To: "Roger (K8RI)" <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>; <amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 7:21 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Down in prosser, WA about 30 years ago they had a problem with a
>>>>>>> pottato
>>>>>>> processing plant and a mechanic came running into the panel room and
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> anyone could stop him threw the main 480v 3 phase breaker. The plant
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> under full load with motors up the cazoo. When the back emf hit it
>>>>>>> blew the
>>>>>>> breaker out of the panel. The guy was lucky he wasn't hurt.
>>>>>>> I retired in 2000 and there is a whole raft of devices that have
>>>>>>> come on
>>>>>>> line since.
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>> N7FCF
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Roger (K8RI)" <sub1 at rogerhalstead.com>
>>>>>>> To: <amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 2:38 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/8/2011 5:22 PM, James R Carr wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Agreed, The first instant in time you have the full output of
>>>>>>>>> Bonnyville
>>>>>>>>> Dam
>>>>>>>>> on the fault. But then the impedance of the system kicks in and
>>>>>>>>> limits
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>> But still depending on the size of the utility transformer, it's
>>>>>>>>> eficiency,
>>>>>>>>> the length and size of the service conductors, you can still have
>>>>>>>>> several
>>>>>>>>> thousand amps at the main panel and down the line. About 20 25
>>>>>>>>> years ago
>>>>>>>>> they had to increase the fault clearing ability all the breakers
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> panels from 5000 amps to 20000 amps due to the increased use of
>>>>>>>>> low loss
>>>>>>>> Our mains weren't quite that large, but they were big...It's been
>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>> long for me to remember the actual size.
>>>>>>>> They used magnetic quenching in arc chutes. They could open under
>>>>>>>> full
>>>>>>>> load without self destruction, BUT with big transformers down
>>>>>>>> stream
>>>>>>>> (Inductive loads) the "kick back" was so bad that reverse EMF would
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> out almost any thing attached to the line. So, if you blew one of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> mains you knew it was going to be an expensive day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roger (K8RI)
>>>>>>>>> transformers by the utilities. basically the breaker can clear it
>>>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>>>> exploding. It probably will be terminally damaged though. I have
>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>> buss
>>>>>>>>> bars twisted into pretsels by a dead short and a breaker that
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>> quick enough.
>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>> N7FCF
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Jim Thomson"<jim.thom at telus.net>
>>>>>>>>> To:<amps at contesting.com>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2011 2:18 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 08:34:30 +0000
>>>>>>>>>> From: Ian White GM3SEK<gm3sek at ifwtech.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fuses
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James R Carr wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Where pray tell do you get a hydraulic breaker? I have installed
>>>>>>>>>>> several thousand over the years but have yet to see one filled
>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>> oil. As for current limiting devices, the fastest breaker will
>>>>>>>>>>> hold in
>>>>>>>>>>> for three to seven full cycles. To be current limiting, a fuse
>>>>>>>>>>> has to
>>>>>>>>>>> clear in less
>>>>>>>>>>> than 1/2 cycle.
>>>>>>>>>> A fuse provides NO current limiting until it blows; and a breaker
>>>>>>>>>> provides NO current limiting until it breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A lot of damage can be done in those first few milliseconds,
>>>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>>>> why the fuse/breaker is only PART of the solution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We always need a surge limiting resistor in the B+ as well, to
>>>>>>>>>> provide
>>>>>>>>>> instantaneous current limiting until the fuse/breaker takes over
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> finally breaks the circuit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 73 from Ian GM3SEK
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ## Agreed. The purpose of the mag-hydraulic breaker is [A]
>>>>>>>>>> handy dandy
>>>>>>>>>> way of opening off the 240 v line, without having to kill the
>>>>>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>>>>>> breaker in the
>>>>>>>>>> main 200A panel. [B] eliminate any follow on current.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ## On my latest 7700 vdc supply, I use a Buss HVU series, sand
>>>>>>>>>> filled
>>>>>>>>>> HV fuse..rated at 3A..in series
>>>>>>>>>> with the B+ lead. The HV fuse gets inserted just prior to the
>>>>>>>>>> kw
>>>>>>>>>> rated
>>>>>>>>>> glitch R, which consists of 4 x
>>>>>>>>>> parallel globar type AS energy absorbing type resistor's, 1.5"
>>>>>>>>>> diam x
>>>>>>>>>> 18' long. [ 4 x 200 ohm in parallel= 50 ohms]
>>>>>>>>>> 7700/50 ohms = 154A. max fault current. Now 154 A of fault
>>>>>>>>>> current,
>>>>>>>>>> flowing through a 3 A rated
>>>>>>>>>> fuse, will open VERY fast. [ the fuse is running at 5100% of
>>>>>>>>>> it's
>>>>>>>>>> rating]. I use a 50 ohm glitch R on the
>>>>>>>>>> smaller supplies as well... with the provisio that a smaller
>>>>>>>>>> rated HV
>>>>>>>>>> fuse
>>>>>>>>>> is used..like 1A, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ## I also use a 2nd Buss HV fuse, in the sec of the plate xfmr,
>>>>>>>>>> [one
>>>>>>>>>> leg
>>>>>>>>>> only], between sec and input to
>>>>>>>>>> FWB. In normal operation, with any B+ to chassis fault, the B+
>>>>>>>>>> HV fuse
>>>>>>>>>> alway's blows open 1st..so the
>>>>>>>>>> breaker used in the 240 v line is sorta a moot point. That B+
>>>>>>>>>> fuse
>>>>>>>>>> concept has been tested 34 x times
>>>>>>>>>> now, and nothing ever happens..except a blown HV fuse. Once,
>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> blown HV fuses were
>>>>>>>>>> 'refurbished' with a single strand, soldered on the outside..and
>>>>>>>>>> wrapped
>>>>>>>>>> with 88 tape. In one case, the
>>>>>>>>>> wire ga of the single strand refurbished job was too big.. and
>>>>>>>>>> the end
>>>>>>>>>> result was the parallel pair of 100
>>>>>>>>>> ohm, 225 W- WW's were literally incinerated, burnt to a crisp.
>>>>>>>>>> That
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> with a 165 uf filter cap..and a 253 lb
>>>>>>>>>> dahl hypersil xfmr. That particular glitch R was replaced with 4
>>>>>>>>>> parallel 200 ohm, 225 W, wirewounds
>>>>>>>>>> [ $12.00 each, from mouser],and the correct size HV fuse. Zero
>>>>>>>>>> problems
>>>>>>>>>> since then, and you can literally
>>>>>>>>>> cro-bar it all day long. I would not trust any of these glitch
>>>>>>>>>> R's,
>>>>>>>>>> even
>>>>>>>>>> big ones..without a prior series HV fuse,
>>>>>>>>>> not with big uf caps, huge amount's of joules involved, and then
>>>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> rely on a breaker [ or even the
>>>>>>>>>> 2nd HV AC fuse].
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ## In one instance, one of the hv lytics [ 3900 uf @ 450 vdc]
>>>>>>>>>> towards
>>>>>>>>>> the hot end of the string, arced through a
>>>>>>>>>> crack in the plywood, and launched itself. Since the fault was
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> the B+ fuse.... the 2nd HV fuse blew.
>>>>>>>>>> [ the one located between sec of xfmr and FWB]. The 96 x 6A10's
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> FWB were not damaged. In 2 x instances the
>>>>>>>>>> 240 vac breaker popped open. Once when a screw removed from a 6"
>>>>>>>>>> fan..and
>>>>>>>>>> the AL fan swung down like a pendulum
>>>>>>>>>> and hit one side of the 240 vac buss. [ and blew a chunk out of
>>>>>>>>>> the fan
>>>>>>>>>> casing]. The 2nd time was a B+ fault.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ## I use a simple 50 ohm-50W WW on my L4B's..with the stock
>>>>>>>>>> drake HV
>>>>>>>>>> B+ fuse. [ consist of a .82 ohm, 1 watt carbon R ].
>>>>>>>>>> The stock .82 Ohm R always blows cleanly in 1/2. I have only
>>>>>>>>>> had 2
>>>>>>>>>> x
>>>>>>>>>> ever blow open since 1977.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> later... Jim VE7RF
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Amps mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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