[Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 133, Issue 47
Gary Smith
wa6fgi at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 30 11:46:48 EST 2014
Old military tube. 10v @ 3.2a ?
Link is below.
http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vt4c.html
Gary..wa6fgi
On 1/29/2014 2:50 PM, amps-request at contesting.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (William Turner)
> 2. Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Jim Hargrave)
> 3. Re: Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Mike McCarthy, W1NR)
> 4. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
> 5. Re: Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Fuqua, Bill L)
> 6. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Roger (K8RI))
> 7. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
> 8. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
> 9. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:02:06 -0800
> From: William Turner <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <52E9340E.1070008 at wildblue.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>
> On 1/29/2014 7:35 AM, k7fm wrote:
>> The 6AG7 can be used when you build a replica Paraset and cannot find
>> a metal 6V6. Rewire a couple of pins. It looks and works the same.
>> The problem is try joining the Paraset Club, if you fess up to using
>> the 6AG7, your application will be rejected. But, it would have been
>> denied anyway because I made mine 40 meters only and used a different
>> power connector.
>>
>> 73, Colin
> REPLY:
>
> I hadn't heard of the Paraset, so I did a Google search. Interesting
> history:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraset
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:11:59 -0600
> From: Jim Hargrave <w5ifp at gvtc.com>
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <52E96E9F.9020201 at gvtc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
> several hits
> I sent you a PDF file.
>
> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>
> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take a look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube. Appreciate it..
>>
>> 73
>> Mark
>> W0NCL
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:43:25 -0500
> From: "Mike McCarthy, W1NR" <lists at w1nr.net>
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <52E975FD.4070601 at w1nr.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I have the carcass of an old mil-surplus AM rig that has 4 of them in it.
>
> You can get audiofools to shell out hundreds of dollars for
> those tubes on that e-place. They are popular for building audio amps.
>
> Mike, W1NR
>
> On 01/29/2014 04:11 PM, Jim Hargrave wrote:
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
>> several hits
>> I sent you a PDF file.
>>
>> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>>
>> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>> amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it
>>> puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it
>>> worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be
>>> substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for
>>> rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take
>>> a look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube.
>>> Appreciate it..
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Mark
>>> W0NCL
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:47:06 -0500
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "Eddy Swynar" <deswynar at xplornet.ca>, <k7fm at teleport.com>
> Cc: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <B7DD51BAB0974E9AB8F34BEA7602C80D at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
>
> I had a pair of VT-4C's, aka 211 Special, as a self excited oscillator on 80
> CW a few years ago, took me 2 1/2 years to confirm DXCC at about 100W out.
> The note sounded pretty good once I used regulated DC for filaments and
> plate. As a Class C PP amp figure on about 250W max for CW and 200W on AM.
>
> The receivers were a couple of my early 1930's sets such as a SW-58, AGSX,
> FB-XA....not exactly high performance!
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eddy Swynar" <deswynar at xplornet.ca>
> To: <k7fm at teleport.com>
> Cc: <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>
>
>> On 2014-01-29, at 12:15 AM, k7fm wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/28/14 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>>> amplifier he has for sale.
>>> The VT4C is aka the 211. They have 100 watts of plate dissipation each.
>>> Filament is 10 volts at 3.25 amps. Maximum frequency ratings of 15 MHz
>>> (whoops mc for that vintage). They were often obtained surplus from the
>>> BC-375.
>>>
>>> My opinion is that they are a terrible tube for a linear amplifier. There
>>> are a number of triodes that can replace it, however these group of
>>> tubes have been bought up by audiophools, who think these triodes put out
>>> better notes than other amplifier devices.
>>>
>>> You can substitute a pair of 805 tubes, but they have also increased in
>>> price. It might make a nice AM final amplifier, but may need some work
>>> for a linear. You could trade out the tube sockets and filament
>>> transformer and use almost any triode. Two 572B tubes would work
>>>
>>> In short, you can make it work on the low bands - but why?
>>>
>>> 73, Colin K7FM
>>
>>
>> Hi Colin,
>>
>> Those 211 tubes are lusted-after by the vintage radio transmitting crowd,
>> too. A coupla years ago I built a 2x211 Colpitts self-excited transmitter
>> for use in one of the Antique Wireless Association events (i.e. "The 1929
>> QSO Party")...
>>
>> It sure did have a VERY unique note / tone, bar none...! And it was an
>> absolute blast to see those big ol' jugs light-up, too...
>>
>> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date: 01/29/14
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:20:44 +0000
> From: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>
> To: Jim Hargrave <w5ifp at gvtc.com>, "amps at contesting.com"
> <amps at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID:
> <B7E8B5B4A202074084E2515A7B10A7F32D69FD56 at ex10mb02.ad.uky.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> You have to realize that when this amplifier was built power was measured as plate input power and not output.
> These tubes were rated for 225 Watts plate input max in class C each CCS.
> So 500 Watts plate input power for a pair is possible. However, max frequency at full rating was 15MHz
> 73
> Bill wa4lav
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Amps [amps-bounces at contesting.com] on behalf of Jim Hargrave [w5ifp at gvtc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:11 PM
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
>
> Mark,
>
> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
> several hits
> I sent you a PDF file.
>
> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>
> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take a look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube. Appreciate it..
>>
>> 73
>> Mark
>> W0NCL
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:22:33 -0500
> From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri at rogerhalstead.com>
> To: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <52E97F29.80908 at rogerhalstead.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 1/29/2014 4:00 AM, William Turner wrote:
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>
>> n 1/28/2014 11:22 PM, Fuqua, Bill L wrote:
>>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid.
>> REPLY:
>>
> I never saw one in a TV, but they are an old tube. Often used as an
> oscillator. I've seen amps designed with the tubes on the bottom and
> set in water. Looked really strange but added greatly to the tubes life.
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>> The 6AG7 was a great tube in its day. Had about the highest
>> transconductance of any consumer-type tube as I recall. Originally used
>> as a video output amplifier in early black and white TVs.
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>
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> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:41 -0500
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: <g8on at fsmail.net>, "Amps" <amps at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <A1ECE1B24DF444C98C3087312B91EC83 at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> QST also rated it as the best tube for a crystal oscillator in the 40's,
> especially the low crystal current.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "peter chadwick" <g8on at fsmail.net>
> To: "William Turner" <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>; "Amps" <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>
>
>> Before TV, it was used a lot as the video driver in various WW2 radars.
>> The Tung Sol data sheet issue 1 is February 1942: it was made by RCA, GE
>> and Tung-Sol and possibly KenRad. It was also manufactured in the DDR
>> (Deutsche Demokratischen Republik - Communist East Germany, prefix DM) as
>> the 6AG& and a 6AG7k, but my German is inadequate to figure the
>> difference.
>>
>> A good tube. I seem to have quite a lot of them - need to find a use for
>> them.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Peter G3RZP
>> ========================================
>> Message Received: Jan 29 2014, 09:00 AM
>> From: "William Turner" <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>> To: "Amps" <amps at contesting.com>
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>
>> n 1/28/2014 11:22 PM, Fuqua, Bill L wrote:
>>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid.
>> REPLY:
>>
>> The 6AG7 was a great tube in its day. Had about the highest
>> transconductance of any consumer-type tube as I recall. Originally used
>> as a video output amplifier in early black and white TVs.
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date: 01/29/14
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:46 -0500
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>, "MU 4CX250B"
> <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
> Cc: amps at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <056DE2CE0D15425293632C57B217D788 at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I also copied that article in CQ maybe? Used 3 of them also with a 10A into
> the 4 GG modified 1625's that were the in thing for awhile for poor high
> schoolers.
>
> I have no idea what any of the output powers were or the combined IMD but
> they did work 80-15M.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>
> To: "MU 4CX250B" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>; "William Turner"
> <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
> Cc: <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>
>
>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid. Slowly conditioned them by raising
>> the plate voltage to
>> 1kV. My 200 Watt lamp dummy load got quite hot. I tried one first and then
>> got a large block of
>> aluminum that I drilled four 1 inch holes into. Then using a carbide saw
>> blade that my father had
>> on his table saw, I slotted the block to make fins. I mounted it on a
>> chassis with a color TV power
>> transformer and voltage doubler. My filter capacitors were some AC run
>> capacitors I got from
>> a scrap pile at a heating and air conditioner shop. I only had a few Watts
>> drive from my
>> CE10A. I had bandswitched it since it only came with a 80 meter coil set.
>> So my output was
>> not coupling was not ideal.
>> It worked well from 80 to 20 meters but could not get much output on 15.
>> I still have the heatsink but can't find the rest of it.
>> 73
>> Bill wa4lav
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amps [amps-bounces at contesting.com] on behalf of MU 4CX250B
>> [4cx250b at miamioh.edu]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:00 AM
>> To: William Turner
>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>> When I was a kid I built a linear amp running four 6AG7s, from an
>> article in CQ. The author had discovered that the nominal 3W plate
>> dissipation of the 6AG7 could be pushed to 100W. The tubes got
>> so hot the black paint blistered. As I recall, the tube life was
>> measured in minutes, not hours. (Those were the days when
>> Burstein-Applebee sold JAN 1625s for $0.25.) I'm sure some of you guys
>> remember the article!
>> 73,
>> Jim W8ZR
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:50 PM, William Turner <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 1/28/2014 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>> amplifier
>>> Betcha you never saw an amplifier with a 6SJ7 as the final. When I was a
>>> poverty-stricken teenager, that was what I used on 40 meters. Three watts
>>> DC input and I worked the east coast from California. I was so proud I
>>> almost hurt myself smiling.
>>>
>>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date: 01/29/14
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:58 -0500
> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
> To: <k7fm at teleport.com>, <amps at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
> Message-ID: <E897CCF7E6CE482AB06649BEFE4D1588 at computer1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> They were designed for Class B audio AND RF and have very low distortion.
> However the mu is only 12 so they take a bit of drive.
>
> As a grid driven SSB linear run them as with any other tube that has a 100W
> plate dissipation.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "k7fm" <k7fm at teleport.com>
> To: <amps at contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>
>
>> On 01/28/14 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>> amplifier he has for sale.
>> The VT4C is aka the 211. They have 100 watts of plate dissipation each.
>> Filament is 10 volts at 3.25 amps. Maximum frequency ratings of 15 MHz
>> (whoops mc for that vintage). They were often obtained surplus from the
>> BC-375.
>>
>> My opinion is that they are a terrible tube for a linear amplifier. There
>> are a number of triodes that can replace it, however these group of tubes
>> have been bought up by audiophools, who think these triodes put out better
>> notes than other amplifier devices.
>>
>> You can substitute a pair of 805 tubes, but they have also increased in
>> price. It might make a nice AM final amplifier, but may need some work
>> for a linear. You could trade out the tube sockets and filament
>> transformer and use almost any triode. Two 572B tubes would work
>>
>> In short, you can make it work on the low bands - but why?
>>
>> 73, Colin K7FM
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> -----
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date: 01/29/14
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Amps Digest, Vol 133, Issue 47
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