[Amps] 211/VT4C tube
Carl
km1h at jeremy.mv.com
Thu Jan 30 12:09:18 EST 2014
Used primarily in the WW2 BC-191 and BC-375 aircraft transmitters. Most were
replaced in combat aircraft by the ART-13 series but many other aircraft
still kept the earlier gear.
Carl
KM1H
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Smith" <wa6fgi at yahoo.com>
To: <amps at contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Amps] Amps Digest, Vol 133, Issue 47
> Old military tube. 10v @ 3.2a ?
>
> Link is below.
>
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/tubes/tube_vt4c.html
>
> Gary..wa6fgi
>
>
>
> On 1/29/2014 2:50 PM, amps-request at contesting.com wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (William Turner)
>> 2. Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Jim Hargrave)
>> 3. Re: Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Mike McCarthy, W1NR)
>> 4. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
>> 5. Re: Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Fuqua, Bill L)
>> 6. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Roger (K8RI))
>> 7. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
>> 8. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
>> 9. Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier (Carl)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:02:06 -0800
>> From: William Turner <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>> To: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <52E9340E.1070008 at wildblue.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>
>> On 1/29/2014 7:35 AM, k7fm wrote:
>>> The 6AG7 can be used when you build a replica Paraset and cannot find
>>> a metal 6V6. Rewire a couple of pins. It looks and works the same.
>>> The problem is try joining the Paraset Club, if you fess up to using
>>> the 6AG7, your application will be rejected. But, it would have been
>>> denied anyway because I made mine 40 meters only and used a different
>>> power connector.
>>>
>>> 73, Colin
>> REPLY:
>>
>> I hadn't heard of the Paraset, so I did a Google search. Interesting
>> history:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraset
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 15:11:59 -0600
>> From: Jim Hargrave <w5ifp at gvtc.com>
>> To: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <52E96E9F.9020201 at gvtc.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
>> several hits
>> I sent you a PDF file.
>>
>> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>>
>> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>> amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it
>>> puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it
>>> worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be
>>> substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for
>>> rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take a
>>> look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube.
>>> Appreciate it..
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Mark
>>> W0NCL
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:43:25 -0500
>> From: "Mike McCarthy, W1NR" <lists at w1nr.net>
>> To: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <52E975FD.4070601 at w1nr.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I have the carcass of an old mil-surplus AM rig that has 4 of them in it.
>>
>> You can get audiofools to shell out hundreds of dollars for
>> those tubes on that e-place. They are popular for building audio amps.
>>
>> Mike, W1NR
>>
>> On 01/29/2014 04:11 PM, Jim Hargrave wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
>>> several hits
>>> I sent you a PDF file.
>>>
>>> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>>>
>>> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>>> amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it
>>>> puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it
>>>> worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be
>>>> substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for
>>>> rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take
>>>> a look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube.
>>>> Appreciate it..
>>>>
>>>> 73
>>>> Mark
>>>> W0NCL
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 16:47:06 -0500
>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: "Eddy Swynar" <deswynar at xplornet.ca>, <k7fm at teleport.com>
>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <B7DD51BAB0974E9AB8F34BEA7602C80D at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>>
>> I had a pair of VT-4C's, aka 211 Special, as a self excited oscillator on
>> 80
>> CW a few years ago, took me 2 1/2 years to confirm DXCC at about 100W
>> out.
>> The note sounded pretty good once I used regulated DC for filaments and
>> plate. As a Class C PP amp figure on about 250W max for CW and 200W on
>> AM.
>>
>> The receivers were a couple of my early 1930's sets such as a SW-58,
>> AGSX,
>> FB-XA....not exactly high performance!
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Eddy Swynar" <deswynar at xplornet.ca>
>> To: <k7fm at teleport.com>
>> Cc: <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>>
>>> On 2014-01-29, at 12:15 AM, k7fm wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/28/14 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>>>> amplifier he has for sale.
>>>> The VT4C is aka the 211. They have 100 watts of plate dissipation
>>>> each.
>>>> Filament is 10 volts at 3.25 amps. Maximum frequency ratings of 15 MHz
>>>> (whoops mc for that vintage). They were often obtained surplus from
>>>> the
>>>> BC-375.
>>>>
>>>> My opinion is that they are a terrible tube for a linear amplifier.
>>>> There
>>>> are a number of triodes that can replace it, however these group of
>>>> tubes have been bought up by audiophools, who think these triodes put
>>>> out
>>>> better notes than other amplifier devices.
>>>>
>>>> You can substitute a pair of 805 tubes, but they have also increased in
>>>> price. It might make a nice AM final amplifier, but may need some work
>>>> for a linear. You could trade out the tube sockets and filament
>>>> transformer and use almost any triode. Two 572B tubes would work
>>>>
>>>> In short, you can make it work on the low bands - but why?
>>>>
>>>> 73, Colin K7FM
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Colin,
>>>
>>> Those 211 tubes are lusted-after by the vintage radio transmitting
>>> crowd,
>>> too. A coupla years ago I built a 2x211 Colpitts self-excited
>>> transmitter
>>> for use in one of the Antique Wireless Association events (i.e. "The
>>> 1929
>>> QSO Party")...
>>>
>>> It sure did have a VERY unique note / tone, bar none...! And it was an
>>> absolute blast to see those big ol' jugs light-up, too...
>>>
>>> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date:
>>> 01/29/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 22:20:44 +0000
>> From: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>
>> To: Jim Hargrave <w5ifp at gvtc.com>, "amps at contesting.com"
>> <amps at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID:
>> <B7E8B5B4A202074084E2515A7B10A7F32D69FD56 at ex10mb02.ad.uky.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> You have to realize that when this amplifier was built power was
>> measured as plate input power and not output.
>> These tubes were rated for 225 Watts plate input max in class C each CCS.
>> So 500 Watts plate input power for a pair is possible. However, max
>> frequency at full rating was 15MHz
>> 73
>> Bill wa4lav
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: Amps [amps-bounces at contesting.com] on behalf of Jim Hargrave
>> [w5ifp at gvtc.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:11 PM
>> To: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: [Amps] Fwd: Re: Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> The VT4C is a Army designation for the 211 tube. Google it and you get
>> several hits
>> I sent you a PDF file.
>>
>> Jim w5ifp at gvtc.com
>>
>> On 1/28/2014 9:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>> amplifier he has for sale. It's a really big amplifier. He thinks it
>>> puts out about 500 watts. I've never heard of this tube before. Is it
>>> worth getting anything this big for 500 watts? Can anything be
>>> substituted in place of these tubes? Its running 866's for
>>> rectification. I haven't seen it yet but may drive an hour to go take a
>>> look. Thanks for any feedback you guys might have on this tube.
>>> Appreciate it..
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Mark
>>> W0NCL
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:22:33 -0500
>> From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri at rogerhalstead.com>
>> To: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <52E97F29.80908 at rogerhalstead.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> On 1/29/2014 4:00 AM, William Turner wrote:
>>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>>
>>> n 1/28/2014 11:22 PM, Fuqua, Bill L wrote:
>>>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid.
>>> REPLY:
>>>
>> I never saw one in a TV, but they are an old tube. Often used as an
>> oscillator. I've seen amps designed with the tubes on the bottom and
>> set in water. Looked really strange but added greatly to the tubes life.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
>>
>>
>>> The 6AG7 was a great tube in its day. Had about the highest
>>> transconductance of any consumer-type tube as I recall. Originally used
>>> as a video output amplifier in early black and white TVs.
>>>
>>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>> protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:41 -0500
>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: <g8on at fsmail.net>, "Amps" <amps at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <A1ECE1B24DF444C98C3087312B91EC83 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> QST also rated it as the best tube for a crystal oscillator in the 40's,
>> especially the low crystal current.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "peter chadwick" <g8on at fsmail.net>
>> To: "William Turner" <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>; "Amps"
>> <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>>
>>> Before TV, it was used a lot as the video driver in various WW2 radars.
>>> The Tung Sol data sheet issue 1 is February 1942: it was made by RCA,
>>> GE
>>> and Tung-Sol and possibly KenRad. It was also manufactured in the DDR
>>> (Deutsche Demokratischen Republik - Communist East Germany, prefix DM)
>>> as
>>> the 6AG& and a 6AG7k, but my German is inadequate to figure the
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> A good tube. I seem to have quite a lot of them - need to find a use for
>>> them.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Peter G3RZP
>>> ========================================
>>> Message Received: Jan 29 2014, 09:00 AM
>>> From: "William Turner" <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>>> To: "Amps" <amps at contesting.com>
>>> Cc:
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>>
>>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE: (may be snipped)
>>>
>>> n 1/28/2014 11:22 PM, Fuqua, Bill L wrote:
>>>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid.
>>> REPLY:
>>>
>>> The 6AG7 was a great tube in its day. Had about the highest
>>> transconductance of any consumer-type tube as I recall. Originally used
>>> as a video output amplifier in early black and white TVs.
>>>
>>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date:
>>> 01/29/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:46 -0500
>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>, "MU 4CX250B"
>> <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>
>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <056DE2CE0D15425293632C57B217D788 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=original
>>
>> I also copied that article in CQ maybe? Used 3 of them also with a 10A
>> into
>> the 4 GG modified 1625's that were the in thing for awhile for poor high
>> schoolers.
>>
>> I have no idea what any of the output powers were or the combined IMD but
>> they did work 80-15M.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fuqua, Bill L" <wlfuqu00 at uky.edu>
>> To: "MU 4CX250B" <4cx250b at miamioh.edu>; "William Turner"
>> <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>> Cc: <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>>
>>> I also ran 4 6AG7s in grounded grid. Slowly conditioned them by
>>> raising
>>> the plate voltage to
>>> 1kV. My 200 Watt lamp dummy load got quite hot. I tried one first and
>>> then
>>> got a large block of
>>> aluminum that I drilled four 1 inch holes into. Then using a carbide
>>> saw
>>> blade that my father had
>>> on his table saw, I slotted the block to make fins. I mounted it on a
>>> chassis with a color TV power
>>> transformer and voltage doubler. My filter capacitors were some AC run
>>> capacitors I got from
>>> a scrap pile at a heating and air conditioner shop. I only had a few
>>> Watts
>>> drive from my
>>> CE10A. I had bandswitched it since it only came with a 80 meter coil
>>> set.
>>> So my output was
>>> not coupling was not ideal.
>>> It worked well from 80 to 20 meters but could not get much output on
>>> 15.
>>> I still have the heatsink but can't find the rest of it.
>>> 73
>>> Bill wa4lav
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Amps [amps-bounces at contesting.com] on behalf of MU 4CX250B
>>> [4cx250b at miamioh.edu]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:00 AM
>>> To: William Turner
>>> Cc: amps at contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>>
>>> When I was a kid I built a linear amp running four 6AG7s, from an
>>> article in CQ. The author had discovered that the nominal 3W plate
>>> dissipation of the 6AG7 could be pushed to 100W. The tubes got
>>> so hot the black paint blistered. As I recall, the tube life was
>>> measured in minutes, not hours. (Those were the days when
>>> Burstein-Applebee sold JAN 1625s for $0.25.) I'm sure some of you guys
>>> remember the article!
>>> 73,
>>> Jim W8ZR
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:50 PM, William Turner <dezrat1242 at wildblue.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/28/2014 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>>> amplifier
>>>> Betcha you never saw an amplifier with a 6SJ7 as the final. When I was
>>>> a
>>>> poverty-stricken teenager, that was what I used on 40 meters. Three
>>>> watts
>>>> DC input and I worked the east coast from California. I was so proud I
>>>> almost hurt myself smiling.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Amps mailing list
>>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date:
>>> 01/29/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2014 17:49:58 -0500
>> From: "Carl" <km1h at jeremy.mv.com>
>> To: <k7fm at teleport.com>, <amps at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>> Message-ID: <E897CCF7E6CE482AB06649BEFE4D1588 at computer1>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>> reply-type=response
>>
>> They were designed for Class B audio AND RF and have very low distortion.
>> However the mu is only 12 so they take a bit of drive.
>>
>> As a grid driven SSB linear run them as with any other tube that has a
>> 100W
>> plate dissipation.
>>
>> Carl
>> KM1H
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "k7fm" <k7fm at teleport.com>
>> To: <amps at contesting.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 12:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] Weird tubes in an amplifier
>>
>>
>>> On 01/28/14 7:24 PM, Mark wrote:
>>>> Just when I thought I had heard of almost every type of tube in an
>>>> amplifier, I talked to a ham that has 2 VT4C's in an older home brew
>>>> amplifier he has for sale.
>>> The VT4C is aka the 211. They have 100 watts of plate dissipation each.
>>> Filament is 10 volts at 3.25 amps. Maximum frequency ratings of 15 MHz
>>> (whoops mc for that vintage). They were often obtained surplus from the
>>> BC-375.
>>>
>>> My opinion is that they are a terrible tube for a linear amplifier.
>>> There
>>> are a number of triodes that can replace it, however these group of
>>> tubes
>>> have been bought up by audiophools, who think these triodes put out
>>> better
>>> notes than other amplifier devices.
>>>
>>> You can substitute a pair of 805 tubes, but they have also increased in
>>> price. It might make a nice AM final amplifier, but may need some work
>>> for a linear. You could trade out the tube sockets and filament
>>> transformer and use almost any triode. Two 572B tubes would work
>>>
>>> In short, you can make it work on the low bands - but why?
>>>
>>> 73, Colin K7FM
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Amps mailing list
>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> No virus found in this message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3681/7042 - Release Date:
>>> 01/29/14
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Amps Digest, Vol 133, Issue 47
>> *************************************
>
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