[Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL

[Roger (K8RI)]

Not sure what you are disagreeing with.  Distilled water presents a high 
resistance when first used, BUT, distilled and de-ionized water is ion 
hungry, or rephrased, quite corrosive. It will take the strength out of 
brass fittings to the point where you caqn crumble them between your 
finger.. IE, hose barbs. It is the metal ions that increase the 
conductivity. Tap water (with no salt) is still conductive)

As the water ages, the dissolved metal ions lower the resistivity. 
That's why we monitor the resistivity. Eventually the resistivity gets 
low enough that the water needs to be replaced with, fresh, clean, 
distilled water.

73, Roger (K8RI)

On 2/20/2017 7:05 PM, Ray, W4BYG wrote:
> FYI: I'm afraid I have to disagree on the statement below about 
> distilled water being conductive.
>
> In industrial experiments in the use of distilled water,  I found it 
> to be very non-conductive.  If I recall correctly, it has a measured 
> conductivity of 50 to maybe 100 micro-Siemens per centimeter squared.  
> That's not much.  Pure water becomes conductive only if it becomes 
> contaminated with salt like contaminates.  For a comparison, seawater 
> typically measures in the thousands of micro-Siemens per centimeter 
> squared, because of the high salt content.
>
> While working on a clients project to do so, I spent many hours 
> attempting to inject RF into water of various solutions.  It was very 
> difficult in the lab trying to get RF to propagate thru pure water.  
> Other more contaminated solutions not so much..
> 73,
> Ray, W4BYG
>
> On 2/20/2017 12:43 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
>> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:15:55 -0500
>> From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
>> To: Big Don <bigdon39 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "amps at contesting.com" <amps at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't Amps, or Ham Amps be a better reflector for this thread?
>>
>> Were talking distilled water here. If it's conductive enough to present
>> a danger, it's long past time for a replacement.
>>
>> When I was a Tech (before going back to college) it was rare to have
>> water spraying around inside those 100, 200, and even 250 KW generators
>> and the load coils were exposed.
>>
>> Water cooling is a simple, mature technology.  Water cooling is rather
>> simple. It's the monitoring that can get complicated.  In high voltage
>> areas, we used linear (solenoid) coils of clear Tygon tubing to get the
>> necessary high resistance.
>>
>> The simplest was a clear plastic block, drilled and tapped for all the
>> water exhausts.  You could see at a glance  how well any water circuit
>> was doing.  Simple, cheap, and foolproof "IF THE OPERATOR PAID 
>> ATTENTION".
>>
>> 73, Roger (K8RI)
>>
>> On 2/15/2017 5:24 AM, Big Don wrote:
>>> Water-cooled amps HEALTH TIP --
>>> There are enough ways to *electrocute* yourself playing with amps
>>> without having leaked water spraying everywhere....
>>> Don  N7EF
>>
>> ####  Wife uses distilled water for her breathing machine at night.   
>> I just checked the
>> resistance of distilled water... vs tap water.   Distilled water 
>> resistance is sky high, I mean
>> really high.   Distilled water comes in 4 litre jugs, dirt cheap at 
>> any of the local grocery stores.
>>
>> ##  I use it myself for the mustang engine and supercharger. Ditto 
>> with the ford fusion.
>> At the telco I worked at, we used nothing but distilled water for the 
>> huge  2 v dc cells, typ
>> 24 in a series string.   We brought in pallets loads of 5 gal 
>> distilled water containers.   We also
>> used distilled  water for the big start batteries for the emergency 
>> generators.   These days,
>> start batteries are all sealed.
>>
>> ##  distilled water is so dirt cheap, and resistance is so high, and 
>> LDMOS  only uses 50 vdc,
>> whats the issue ?   You could toss a bucket of  distilled water into 
>> a 7 kv dc    B+ supply..and
>> nothing will happen.
>>
>> ##  BTW, per einacs care and feeding, it sez  air cooling will remove 
>> 50 watts  per square CM
>> of internal anode area.    Vapor phase cooling will remove  135 watts 
>> per square CM of
>> surface area.  Water cooling will remove 1000 watts per square CM.   
>> Vapor phase cooling is
>> only more eff, in that it does not require a pump, and uses a lot 
>> less water.  Depending on the size
>> of the rad, and if its  mounted vert or horz, u may not even require 
>> a fan for the rad.
>>
>> ##  water  cooling requires more water circulation, and a big rad, 
>> and forced air through the rad,
>> but it will  remove heatr faster than any  other method... except 
>> maybe  freon.
>>
>> ##  If u look at modern HVAC  cooling sytens on commercial buildings 
>> these days, they now mount the
>> huge rads parallel to the roof,  instead of vertical.   Heat rises, 
>> and the rads work more eff if mounted
>> horz  vs vertical.   They still use a fan below the rad though.   
>> telcos use lotsa AC during winter, due to the
>> heat of the equipment, so in winter, night time, cool wx, the fan for 
>> the rad is not always required.
>>
>> ##  In a lot of cases, they  will shoot  water through the vert 
>> mounted rads, to cool em.   They use
>> freon to do the actual cooling, and water to cool the freon, then 
>> more water to  cool the rads,so 3 loops
>> in total.
>>
>> ##  For LDMOS, the pair of water lines could easily be routed to else 
>> where, then a speed
>> controlled fan on a small rad, and ditto with a  variable flow rate 
>> pump.   A  12,000  BTU small rad
>> from jegs, or any of the other speed shops cost <   $50.00 And thats 
>> for a .75 inch thick  core.
>> The higher capacity rads are just thicker, like 1.5 inches thick.   I 
>> use one for my auto tranny.
>> oem cooler is marginal when a supercharger  is used, so added a high 
>> eff  bar + plate  type  rad, in
>> series with oem rad, problem solved.    Old style  tube and fin type 
>> rads are going out of vogue these days.
>> Small oil coolers and auto tranny rad coolers would work just fine 
>> with distilled water.
>>
>> ##  U would end up with a dead quiet LMOS  setup.  Use enough 
>> combiners, and you could get..on paper,
>> 5 or 10 kw pep out if required.   Combining 2 or even 4 ...  of those 
>> 2.4 kw pep output LDMOS amps
>> has already been done.   So you could use them as building blocks.   
>> This is all into a dummy load
>> of course, for pure scientific analysis.
>>
>> Jim   VE7RF
>>
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>


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