[Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL

[donroden at hiwaay.net]

A lot of klystrons for UHF TV used ion-exchangers ( we called them scrubbers )
to help remove the brass / copper / stainless / whatever ions were present.
Don W4DNR


Quoting "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri at rogerhalstead.com>:

> Not sure what you are disagreeing with.  Distilled water presents a  
> high resistance when first used, BUT, distilled and de-ionized water  
> is ion hungry, or rephrased, quite corrosive. It will take the  
> strength out of brass fittings to the point where you caqn crumble  
> them between your finger.. IE, hose barbs. It is the metal ions that  
> increase the conductivity. Tap water (with no salt) is still  
> conductive)
>
> As the water ages, the dissolved metal ions lower the resistivity.  
> That's why we monitor the resistivity. Eventually the resistivity  
> gets low enough that the water needs to be replaced with, fresh,  
> clean, distilled water.
>
> 73, Roger (K8RI)
>
> On 2/20/2017 7:05 PM, Ray, W4BYG wrote:
>> FYI: I'm afraid I have to disagree on the statement below about  
>> distilled water being conductive.
>>
>> In industrial experiments in the use of distilled water,  I found  
>> it to be very non-conductive.  If I recall correctly, it has a  
>> measured conductivity of 50 to maybe 100 micro-Siemens per  
>> centimeter squared.  That's not much.  Pure water becomes  
>> conductive only if it becomes contaminated with salt like  
>> contaminates.  For a comparison, seawater typically measures in the  
>> thousands of micro-Siemens per centimeter squared, because of the  
>> high salt content.
>>
>> While working on a clients project to do so, I spent many hours  
>> attempting to inject RF into water of various solutions.  It was  
>> very difficult in the lab trying to get RF to propagate thru pure  
>> water.  Other more contaminated solutions not so much..
>> 73,
>> Ray, W4BYG
>>
>> On 2/20/2017 12:43 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
>>> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:15:55 -0500
>>> From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
>>> To: Big Don <bigdon39 at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: "amps at contesting.com" <amps at contesting.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Amps] SS amps watercooling - was PowerGenius XL
>>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't Amps, or Ham Amps be a better reflector for this thread?
>>>
>>> Were talking distilled water here. If it's conductive enough to present
>>> a danger, it's long past time for a replacement.
>>>
>>> When I was a Tech (before going back to college) it was rare to have
>>> water spraying around inside those 100, 200, and even 250 KW generators
>>> and the load coils were exposed.
>>>
>>> Water cooling is a simple, mature technology.  Water cooling is rather
>>> simple. It's the monitoring that can get complicated.  In high voltage
>>> areas, we used linear (solenoid) coils of clear Tygon tubing to get the
>>> necessary high resistance.
>>>
>>> The simplest was a clear plastic block, drilled and tapped for all the
>>> water exhausts.  You could see at a glance  how well any water circuit
>>> was doing.  Simple, cheap, and foolproof "IF THE OPERATOR PAID ATTENTION".
>>>
>>> 73, Roger (K8RI)
>>>
>>> On 2/15/2017 5:24 AM, Big Don wrote:
>>>> Water-cooled amps HEALTH TIP --
>>>> There are enough ways to *electrocute* yourself playing with amps
>>>> without having leaked water spraying everywhere....
>>>> Don  N7EF
>>>
>>> ####  Wife uses distilled water for her breathing machine at  
>>> night.   I just checked the
>>> resistance of distilled water... vs tap water.   Distilled water  
>>> resistance is sky high, I mean
>>> really high.   Distilled water comes in 4 litre jugs, dirt cheap  
>>> at any of the local grocery stores.
>>>
>>> ##  I use it myself for the mustang engine and supercharger. Ditto  
>>> with the ford fusion.
>>> At the telco I worked at, we used nothing but distilled water for  
>>> the huge  2 v dc cells, typ
>>> 24 in a series string.   We brought in pallets loads of 5 gal  
>>> distilled water containers.   We also
>>> used distilled  water for the big start batteries for the  
>>> emergency generators.   These days,
>>> start batteries are all sealed.
>>>
>>> ##  distilled water is so dirt cheap, and resistance is so high,  
>>> and LDMOS  only uses 50 vdc,
>>> whats the issue ?   You could toss a bucket of  distilled water  
>>> into a 7 kv dc    B+ supply..and
>>> nothing will happen.
>>>
>>> ##  BTW, per einacs care and feeding, it sez  air cooling will  
>>> remove 50 watts  per square CM
>>> of internal anode area.    Vapor phase cooling will remove  135  
>>> watts per square CM of
>>> surface area.  Water cooling will remove 1000 watts per square CM.  
>>>   Vapor phase cooling is
>>> only more eff, in that it does not require a pump, and uses a lot  
>>> less water.  Depending on the size
>>> of the rad, and if its  mounted vert or horz, u may not even  
>>> require a fan for the rad.
>>>
>>> ##  water  cooling requires more water circulation, and a big rad,  
>>> and forced air through the rad,
>>> but it will  remove heatr faster than any  other method... except  
>>> maybe  freon.
>>>
>>> ##  If u look at modern HVAC  cooling sytens on commercial  
>>> buildings these days, they now mount the
>>> huge rads parallel to the roof,  instead of vertical.   Heat  
>>> rises, and the rads work more eff if mounted
>>> horz  vs vertical.   They still use a fan below the rad though.    
>>> telcos use lotsa AC during winter, due to the
>>> heat of the equipment, so in winter, night time, cool wx, the fan  
>>> for the rad is not always required.
>>>
>>> ##  In a lot of cases, they  will shoot  water through the vert  
>>> mounted rads, to cool em.   They use
>>> freon to do the actual cooling, and water to cool the freon, then  
>>> more water to  cool the rads,so 3 loops
>>> in total.
>>>
>>> ##  For LDMOS, the pair of water lines could easily be routed to  
>>> else where, then a speed
>>> controlled fan on a small rad, and ditto with a  variable flow  
>>> rate pump.   A  12,000  BTU small rad
>>> from jegs, or any of the other speed shops cost <   $50.00 And  
>>> thats for a .75 inch thick  core.
>>> The higher capacity rads are just thicker, like 1.5 inches thick.   
>>>  I use one for my auto tranny.
>>> oem cooler is marginal when a supercharger  is used, so added a  
>>> high eff  bar + plate  type  rad, in
>>> series with oem rad, problem solved.    Old style  tube and fin  
>>> type rads are going out of vogue these days.
>>> Small oil coolers and auto tranny rad coolers would work just fine  
>>> with distilled water.
>>>
>>> ##  U would end up with a dead quiet LMOS  setup.  Use enough  
>>> combiners, and you could get..on paper,
>>> 5 or 10 kw pep out if required.   Combining 2 or even 4 ...  of  
>>> those 2.4 kw pep output LDMOS amps
>>> has already been done.   So you could use them as building blocks.  
>>>   This is all into a dummy load
>>> of course, for pure scientific analysis.
>>>
>>> Jim   VE7RF
>>>
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>>> Amps at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>>
>>
>
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DonR