JPontek at aol.com JPontek at aol.com
Fri Jul 21 10:14:36 EDT 1995

In a message dated 95-07-21 05:04:33 EDT, you write:

>  Maybe in this day
>and age power and the drive to take what one wants, when one wants it, is
>the new standard.  How ironic....  The quest for human "civilization" over
>the century's has been to eliminate just such an attiude.  Not that
>competing and trying to win is wrong, IT IS NOT, (it is in fact what
>separates our statistically small segment of the world's species from the
>others, we don't do it for survival, we do it for sport) but the attitude
>that there is no consideration, nor acceptance for, the "Spirit-Of-The-Law",
>only that "Might-Makes-Right", is what pisses me off.  

New standard? Hmmm? Romans, U.S.  vs native Americans, U.K. )The sun never
sets on..) This is a competition!  This is not a sit back let the wooses have
2 KHz because their RX is that wide and they don't have the power or antenna
to be heard to begin with. Fred had right in the begining, LISTEN, then go!
Don't waste time with QRL QRM!

73, K8Joe"Palooka"
jpontek at aol.com

>From k3lr <k3lr at telerama.lm.com>  Fri Jul 21 15:09:01 1995
From: k3lr <k3lr at telerama.lm.com> (k3lr)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:09:01 -0400
Subject: RUFZ on LTA BBS
Message-ID: <199507211409.KAA17708 at epicycle.lm.com>

WR3G and I have UUDECODED the RUFZ files and installed them as
RUFZ.ZIP on the LTA BBS.  You can get RUFZ by calling 412-528-8877 and
looking in the General Ham Radio Files area (No. 10).

Have Fun and 73,
Tim K3LR

k3lr at telerama.lm.com

>From Ronald D. Rossi" <rrossi at VNET.IBM.COM  Fri Jul 21 15:23:54 1995
From: Ronald D. Rossi" <rrossi at VNET.IBM.COM (Ronald D. Rossi)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 10:23:54 EDT
Subject: "Is the frequency in use?" or "QRL?"

In a previous message, W2UP wrote:

>     .
>     .
>     .
>We're getting into sematics too much here Fred. Part 97 says nothing
>about maintaining a run rate, just communicating.
>Why have 1500W. In all honesty, we only need it to get thru your neighbor
>running 1500W. I ran last CQWW barefoot (for first time) and was
>pleasantly surprised how well one can do with "low power."
>     .
>     .
>     .

Part 97 doesn't just mention communicating it mentions "desired
communication" when referring to power.  Desire is a strong word
quite driven by passion.  For example "I desire to communicate with
as many stations in as short a period as possible".  I run have
100W into a vertical and get squashed nearly at will.  My desire is
clearly not being met :).  Legal limit into some nice antennae
would sure help.  The higher the power you use, then the better
your ears should be as well.  Higher power doesn't reciprocate with
better reception as better antennae do.

I'll be paying my dues and increasing my operating skills with my
current setup for a while.  Nothing better than making do to make
one improve.  When I get the equipment I don't want to be

73 de N1PBT...Ron  (rrossi at vnet.ibm.com) ><>

PS. I guess someone forgot to drive the wooden stake into this
    once dead horse!!

>From Ray Rocker <rocker at datasync.com>  Fri Jul 21 16:29:23 1995
From: Ray Rocker <rocker at datasync.com> (Ray Rocker)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 10:29:23 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: QRL?!
Message-ID: <199507211529.KAA25908 at osh1.datasync.com>

Well, I generally do ask QRL? before CQing just to be courteous, but
consider this: If I'm tuning up the band S&Ping and looking for a clear
spot and I run across someone else asking QRL? I'll usually say to
myself, "A-ha! This guy thinks the freq is clear so perhaps it is!"
and I'll chime in immediately: "Yes it is! CQ CONTEST CQ..."

So it can backfire on you. I don't have a problem with folks CQing 
on top of me out of the blue as long as they go away when told the 
frequency is in use. 

On an unrelated note, Internet Sprint is tomorrow. Be there!

Ray Rocker | WQ5L | rocker at datasync.com
Datasync Internet: THE Internet Provider for the Mississippi Gulf Coast
Shell, SLIP/PPP, and more! info at datasync.com or http://www.datasync.com/
Voice: (601) 872-0001 (Ocean Springs) or (601) 452-0011 (Pass Christian)

>From H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at seattleu.edu  Fri Jul 21 16:24:33 1995
From: H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at seattleu.edu (H. Ward Silver)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Listening First
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9507210833.B11065-c100000 at bach.seattleu.edu>

I think the whole point that is getting lost in the donnybrook over how to
start calling is that listening first acheives the same result as making a
query of any sort. (QRL, dit-dit, ?, etc.) By definition, if you're
looking for a frequency on which to call CQ, then you're not in a high
rate situation, and a few seconds of listening are in order.  I believe
this got glossed over.  I don't think Fred intended to say, "Well, just
spin that big round thing and when it stops, start yellin'."

If we're talking about contester-to-contester interaction, then what Fred
has described is pretty accurate.  Hey, it's a CONTEST, guys!  While
you're not allowed to intentionally QRM people (and I've heard plenty of
that) you ARE supposed to beat them, or try anyway.

We might want to address the contester-to-noncontester problem, though. 
An eternity of contest-seconds (say, about 15) is only one episode of
"Ward, I repeat, Ward, that's Whiskey Alpha Radio Delta, Ward" getting his
name across and maybe an off-hand remark about the weather to his casual
QSO partner.  Maybe you can't hear the guy talking, and maybe there's
three or four of his buddies in a round-table listening.  Here, a QRL
would be appropriate, and even welcome!  Like the thermos keeping hot
stuff hot and cold stuff cold, though, how do you know?

There isn't any really hard-and-fast rule, but my own personal method
depends on whether I'm down in the contest trenches at the low end of the
band, or getting up into the mixed-breed territory.  If I'm in the Hot
Zone, then a dab of listening with nobody heard results in "CQ Contest
from N0AX".  If, however, I'm up where the temperature is low enough to
expect that ragchewing or net life can exist, then I use the QRL technique.

Like most engineers, I can never answer a question without starting by
saying "It depends..."  But, in this case, it depends...

   -.-. --.-  -.-. --.-  -.-. --.-  -.. .  -. ----- .- -..- -..-. --...
   |  ----    ---------   o o o o |
   | |  / |  | N 0 A X |  o o o o |  "I don't know why they call it
   |  ----    ---------           |   wireless...I've never seen so
   |    () ()   /^^^\   () () ()  |   many wires in all my life!"
   | O  o o o  (o    )  () () ()  |       From the 1920's and
   | O  o o o   \___/   o o o o o |        never more true!
     \_/ H. Ward Silver, N0AX \_/
        hwardsil at seattleu.edu

>From sellington" <sellington at mail.ssec.wisc.edu  Fri Jul 21 16:50:51 1995
From: sellington" <sellington at mail.ssec.wisc.edu (sellington)
Date: 21 Jul 1995 10:50:51 -0500
Subject: "QRL"?
Message-ID: <n1405798584.33003 at mail.ssec.wisc.edu>

I think we're losing sight of something here:  The difference between
firing up a CQ without listening or in a deliberate attempt to drive someone
else off the frequency, and the question of whether to use "QRL" to 
determine if the frequency is occupied.  I don't think Fred, or anyone 
else in the discussion, is advocating the former.  (Not that the practice
is unknown in contests!)  So the only real point
of disagreement is HOW one determines whether a frequency is in use.  It
seems to me there isn't really all that much difference between using
"QRL" and a very short CQ, QRZ, TEST, etc.  On the other hand, a long initial
CQ can be very disruptive.

I prefer something like "TEST K9MA" for the first transmission on
what sounds like a clear frequency.  If someone makes some noise, I'll
move.  If not, I'll call a longer CQ unless, of course, I got a
response to the first call.

Scott  K9MA
sellington at ssec.wisc.edu

>From H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at seattleu.edu  Fri Jul 21 16:43:53 1995
From: H. Ward Silver" <hwardsil at seattleu.edu (H. Ward Silver)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 08:43:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "Is the frequency in use?" or "QRL?"
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9507210851.C11065-b100000 at bach.seattleu.edu>

> Legal limit into some nice antennae
> would sure help.  The higher the power you use, then the better
> your ears should be as well.  Higher power doesn't reciprocate with
> better reception as better antennae do.

Actually, nice antennae help on the receiving end, too.  It's much less
likely that with good antennas, you won't hear the other channel
occupants.  I think there's a lot more contest QRM generated by ops with
small antennas running a full gallon.  This is so because they can't/don't
hear well.

K3ZO and the others at the "top of the food chain" consider QRM from a
strategic standpoint; Can I keep my rate high?  Can I hear the third level
of JA's and Eastern EU?  Will the VU's call me here, or will I have to move?

Those of us farther down on the hog, so to speak, must consider QRM from a
survival standpoint; Can I hold the frequency at all?  Will I hear the
first level of DX?  Will they be interested if they can hear me?  How
close can I get to K3ZO before fire comes out of the speaker?

It's funny to consider that the questions about transmitting are
usually answered by receiving.

73, Ward N0AX

>From Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY <blckhole at ripco.com>  Fri Jul 21 17:03:19 1995
From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY <blckhole at ripco.com> (Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:03:19 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: CT "fill in the blanks"
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.91.950721105853.11098B-100000 at golden.ripco.com>

On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Takao KUMAGAI wrote:

> Exactly
> And there is no restriction to change the power during the 
> contest in ARRL DX, right?
> So I can vary(inclese or declease) my output power in each 
> contacts just like progressive 3digit serial number.
> Do not believe the past data which exchanged on other bands, 
> just believe your ear!

Just look at some of the islands in the Carrib that don't let you run 
full power on 160 !

I remember contesting from Antigua back when it was still VP2A (or some 
place....).  I think they had a 100W power limit on 160.  Our exchange on
80-10 was 5x-KW and on 160 it was 5x-100 !!  Bet CT would have caught out
a BUNCH of guys.

PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA
Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters
708-696-2828  FAX: 708-698-2045  e-mail: blckhole at ripco.com

>From Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY <blckhole at ripco.com>  Fri Jul 21 17:17:13 1995
From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY <blckhole at ripco.com> (Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 11:17:13 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: QRL?!
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.91.950721111403.11098D-100000 at golden.ripco.com>

On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Field, Don wrote:

> There is only one sensible way to check whether a frequency is in use, and 
> that is to listen for 15 seconds or so. If you have 
> heard nothing in that time, given that even the longest contest exchange 
> takes only 10 seconds or thereabouts to send, then you can reasonably assume 
> the frequency is not in use. Occasionally you will be wrong, and that is the 
> time to bow out gracefully and try elsewhere. But sending QRL? just adds to 
> the QRM and is a sign of bad operating, impatience and lack of a receiver.

Good for you Don !

Too bad everyone didn't read Fred's original post as carefully as you.  
Thats the problem with this e-mail forum.  The lack of real time 
interaction makes it too easy for people to flame before they really 
understand what somebody means by a comment.  Sort of like negotiating 
via messenger.  Someone is always sure to misunderstand.

PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA
Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters
708-696-2828  FAX: 708-698-2045  e-mail: blckhole at ripco.com

>From BILL FISHER" <BFISHER at concen.com  Fri Jul 21 13:31:53 1995
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 12:31:53
Subject: Re[2]: K3ZO's "Is the frequency in use?" or "QRL?"
Message-ID: <9506218063.AA806355113 at concen.concen.com>



Listen up!!  Listen up!!  The speed limit is 65.  Don't wear a seatbelt.  Claim 
$1,000 in charitable donations on tax return.  = Bla, bla, bla...
     If I'm the station using the frequency... PLEASE PUT ME IN THE 
     DILEMA!!!!!!  PLEASE!!!!!
     I use this procedure and don't consider myself to be an unskilled 
     operator in heavy or not traffic.  The procedure of not asking QRL is 
     (IN MY OBSERVATION) generally used by stations in an advantageous 
     position who lack consideration for those not so advantaged.  A 
     contest, is afterall, a contest.  But this "kill or be killed" 
     attitude to taking a frequency is a generally pompous display of 
     muscle or a lack of operating savy in finding an available frequency.
     Sorry to be so combative... But I hope you all don't take Fred's 
     comments as gospel...  I think a few contests back in the black hole 
     with a tribander would turn him around.  Also, I have never had a 
     confrontation with Fred on the bands, and I think if you operate with 
     using his style the key is to actually LISTEN before CQing.  Most 
     don't.  If you sit there for 5 secs and fire up a CQ, you are a lid.  
     If you sit there for 15 secs...     well I would still send QRL.
     Bill, KM9P

More information about the CQ-Contest mailing list