ARRL\QST\KC2X

[ALGRITZAE2T at delphi.com]

> Is it me, or does anyone else have a hard time dealing with
>the fact that QST makes NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on its August,
>1995 cover of either the 10M 'test, or the RTTY test?  The
>results of both are contained inside!  I suppose those $150
>DSP kits, or "Three simple projects to build this weekend"
>REALLY ARE way more interesting than the results of couple of
>dumb ole' contests...  The League can say what they will
>about their support of radiosport competition in Amateur
>Radio, but I'm a firm believer in the "Money Talks" cliche.
>I believe that the ARRL has said quite a bit about its
>position on contesting right there on the cover of the
>August, 1995.  QST.  Ladies and Gentlemen, if you agree with
>me, get out your keyboards, typewriters, pens/paper or
>whatever and get writing to your Director, and HQ.  I've got
>a letter to write.  73, Steve KC2X

Now that the ARRL is selling QST on the newstands, they
obviously
are putting on the cover whatever they think will sell copies.
Since
anyone interested in contest results is already a ham and an
active one
at that, the assumption is they probably subscribe already, or
at least
might know to expect the contest results inside. Cover space is
reserved
for info aimed at the non-ham/new-ham/non-member who might see
QST
on the newstand.

I guess we're lucky they print contest results at all.

73 - Al AE2T

New address: AE2T at wny.com

>From okanep at iol.ie (Paul O'Kane)  Fri Jul 21 22:21:10 1995
From: okanep at iol.ie (Paul O'Kane) (Paul O'Kane)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:21:10 +0100
Subject: IOTA Contest - 29/30 July
Message-ID: <199507212121.WAA22386 at joyce.iol.ie>

The IOTA contest takes place next weekend 29/30 July, from
1200Z on Saturday to 1200Z Sunday, both CW and SSB.

Version 7.07 of SDI (Super-Duper for IOTA - Contest Logger)
is now available as freeware.  If you have a Web browser, you
can download it from http://www.iol.ie/~okanep/

With anonymous ftp, it's available from ftp.iol.ie.  The
file is sdi.zip (size 210k) in directory /users/okanep

Warning - downloads may be slow.

73,
Paul EI5DI



>From Larry Crim <wz4f at iquest.com>  Sat Jul 22 00:28:48 1995
From: Larry Crim <wz4f at iquest.com> (Larry Crim)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 18:28:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: QRL ad infinitum
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.950721181256.26776A-100000 at vespucci.iquest.com>



This QRL thread is getting to be awfully boring, but one point, I believe 
has been totally ignored by the group, and by K3ZO.

Not everyone on the bands is operating in the contest.

For example: A couple of 80 year old old-timers are rag-chewing high in 
the band trying to escape the contest QRM.  All of a sudden K3ZO fires-up 
his 1.5 KW with a "CQ TEST". (Fred says he likes the high-end of the band 
sometimes.  He has also listened for 15 seconds...but these guys can't do 
anything in 15 MINUTES!).  Plus, the guy transmitting is out of Fred's 
skip zone, but the guy RECEIVING is on the business end of his 1.5 kw and 
multi-element yagi.  Needless to say, the OT's QSO is in trouble.

This type of activity..a callous disregard for non-contesters, just adds 
to the already (yet much undeserved) poor perception some amateurs have 
for our sport.

Larry
wz4f at iquest.com

>From James White <0006492564 at mcimail.com>  Sat Jul 22 02:38:00 1995
From: James White <0006492564 at mcimail.com> (James White)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 95 20:38 EST
Subject: (LONG) de K1ZX; QRL? thread
Message-ID: <32950722013823/0006492564PK5EM at MCIMAIL.COM>

....wow, I was off the reflector for 3 days and seems like I have missed
some serious flamage! K3ZO's monitor is probably melted by now. Hopefully I
am not repeating previously aired thoughts.

I gather the thread evolved around whether seizing a frequency is OK,
whether one should politely request from the world whether the frequency is
QRL prior to his proceeding to CQ.

We will never know if the QRL? questioner's respondant is indeed someone who
has been on that frequency or whether it is an opportune individual picking
up on another's spotting of a clear spot..."thanks for letting me know this
spot doesn't have any RF by your asking QRL! QRZed"  

If you take this approach do you really gain anything? Let's assume that
because we listened to the frequency for more than an exchanges worth of
time and didn't hear an occupant we asked QRL? We do not know whether or not
it was indeed a previously held frequency the only thing we can do is to
assume nay, and have at it - if another station has been established there
he probably has others waiting to work him at the end of the current QSO as
they were listening to him and he is hence "established" there. He has a
rhtyhm and a following and the other station will sense that and realize
that this ain't a frequency he wants to share. If the tennant is like me he
will also tell you to move your *** *ss, this frequency is in use - always
politely of course (although we all think it, we do NOT say it...that son of
a *****) You want a real charge - have a guest operator from another country
at your next multi and notice that they behave exactly the same way as you
do - but utilizing different expressions for other operators abilities to
receive. I have found some choice colorful British expressions exist. 

I handle the situation if I am the one previously established by sending:
K3ZO pse QSY, QRL FRED 73 QRZ T E S T K1ZX K1ZX T E S T

If it is indeed a simultaneous showing up of both stations then let the best
man win...the loudest man wins, and there ain't a damn thing wrong with
that! That sirs is a contest.

There had better not be anything wrong with the louder guy winning the
frequency. The majority of us monitoring this reflector are not using our
first Butternut vertical, we have spent countless hours improving our
stations so we are LOUDER - A.K.A. we are entitled to that frequency in a
showdown. We have earned the upper hand by virtue of developing a superior
station via our sweat and dollars. I emphasize EARNED. 

As contesters we are NEVER satisfied with our antenna farms, always wanting
to be LOUDER...we may find a great antenna system for 1500Z but it just
ain't competative at 1200Z. As a group - contesters do far more antenna
work, not because our antennas always fall down - but because we don't "own"
a frequency on a band well enough...so we constantly try different antennas
hoping to end up loud on every band at any time.

Our licenses limit our power output - our only signal enhancement
possibilities lay in our back yards...antennae projects for the beam teams
and quad squads. 

Contesting is indeed a show of strength, one which is like that in any other
sport though. This is a controlled strength enhanced by the operators
knowledge and cunning...stuff gained through experience alone (remember the
coach saying "practice, practice, practice"). Have you ever been one of a
zillion stations in a pileup where the DX station came back and sent an
exchange but nobody came back to him when he turned it over-silence...what
do you do in this situation? If you don't know the answer to this you better
not be dumping on 'ZO!

After the beating I took on 20 meters in the WPX CW I am not blaming those
who landed on me and took my frequency, boo hoo hoo they are bad hams they
took my frequency - I am instead asking questions here on the reflector and
reading up on stacked Yagi antennas as perhaps a way to help me from getting
so much sand kicked on me at the next contest beach party. I suspect the
same guys who cry about there not being enough awards for them to win any
are also the ones who cry about being beat out for a frequency. 

Am I brain dead - isn't contesting supposed to be competitive? Aren't we
supposed to love it when we are the call emerging from the DX station after
the din of hundreds of packet generated callers subsides??? YESSSSS (Fist
raised high then drawn straight down - "smokin' dude!")

Those who seem to be saying K3ZO is just some loud guy who because of his
big signal bullies his way into the top ten boxes every contest have not
read some of Fred's other postings here - or gone up against him in the
Kansas City pileup contest at Dayton. Fred has a great set of antennas from
the East Coast, yes. When you put a world class operator of his calibre
behind them: voila - consistant top ten finishes. 

There have been a lot of guys who try to buy their way into the top ten
boxes - all of the sudden they show up with a big station and big antennas
and then when they don't win in their first year they are left wondering
why...remember the Fins' catastrophe in Curacao?  $$$$$$$$$$                

If being loud was the only criteria for winning we wouldn't need to have
these long contests taking up the hamband weekends. Signal strength contests
could be simple events and engineers could design antennas for that point to
point path the signals would be measured on. Or if signal strength was not
important we could all just use Dr DX or PED and not even "tie up the
bands." 

Ham radio contesting is a test not only of signal strength but of operator
ability and knowledge and anyone who simplifies it into a one or the other
ain't ever won or even placed in a contest! These multi-disciplinary skills
required by the contester are what keeps a K3ZO interested in contesting for
decade after decade after decade. If you want an easy victory don't look to
HF contesting, there are just too many ins and outs (the challenged's so
called secret contest tricks) one has to learn. Be prepared to invest some
time to learn 'em. 

I am still learning 'em - a lot of them right here on the reflector...its
just like the W6ISQ DXing axiom - you listen FIRST! First trick: Make sure
you work K1ZX in the NAQP and CW Sweepstakes this November.

                                73

                                        Jim, K1ZX      k1zx at mcimail.com


                                                      







>From LBMQ58B at prodigy.com (DOUG KLEIN)  Sat Jul 22 03:01:31 1995
From: LBMQ58B at prodigy.com (DOUG KLEIN) (DOUG KLEIN)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:01:31 EDT
Subject: QRL? rcving end preference
Message-ID: <013.08942934.LBMQ58B at prodigy.com>

-- [ From: Doug Klein * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

A short comment on a topic that's really about dead.

If you give ME the choice of what YOU should do to me when it is my run
frequency..... I would rather hear you send QRL? on top of my SP9 than
to hear you LISTEN then call cq.  The reason is obvious (so why did I
tell you????) :  It is much easier for me to tell you "r tu" than it is
for me to try to convince you that the frequency is really mine.  I
hate battling for a freq I have already been on for hours. I WELCOME
people asking if my freq is QRL?.  

"R TU"  beats "K3ZO   hi Fred qrl hr  TU"

But, I can play both sides of the fence.  If I am doing my job, I can
keep my freq so busy (with an occasional dit dit dit while the other
person is sending me their Social Security number), thus Fred will keep
on going.  By the way, in 20 years (almost) of contesting, I can
honestly say that I have never had a freq battle with Fred!

73 de Doug.... WD8AUB



>From LBMQ58B at prodigy.com (DOUG KLEIN)  Sat Jul 22 03:01:27 1995
From: LBMQ58B at prodigy.com (DOUG KLEIN) (DOUG KLEIN)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:01:27 EDT
Subject: QRL? rcving end preference
Message-ID: <013.08942926.LBMQ58B at prodigy.com>

-- [ From: Doug Klein * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

								
> 
> A short comment on a topic that's really about dead.
> 
> If you give ME the choice of what YOU should do to me when it is my
run
> frequency..... I would rather hear you send QRL? on top of my SP9
than to
> hear you LISTEN then call cq.  The reason is obvious (so why did I
tell
> you????) :  It is much easier for me to tell you "r tu" than it is
for me
> to try to convince you that the frequency is really mine.  I hate
battling
> for a freq I have already been on for hours. I WELCOME people asking
if my
> freq is QRL?.  
> 
> "R TU"  beats "K3ZO   hi Fred qrl hr  TU"
> 
> But, I can play both sides of the fence.  If I am doing my job, I can
keep
> my freq so busy (with an occasional dit dit dit while the other
person is
> sending me their Social Security number), thus Fred will keep on
going. 
> By the way, in 20 years (almost) of contesting, I can honestly say
that I
> have never had a freq battle with Fred!
> 
> 73 de Doug.... WD8AUB
> 

------- FORWARD, End of original message -------




>From oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills)  Sat Jul 22 03:36:43 1995
From: oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu (Derek Wills) (Derek Wills)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 21:36:43 -0500
Subject: QRL-ing

Well, I dunno.   I'm not a Big Time contester, and my first reaction
to K3ZO's posting was that my opinion of him went way down, not that 
this will worry him.   My second reaction was that it was just the way 
his posting was worded.   Finally, I just decided yet again that I am 
not a Big Time contester and never will be.

Perhaps relevant story - when I visited India, I was near the front of
the queue (line) for immigration.  VUs are not as well-behaved as Gs are,
at least not in immigration lines.   By the time I got through, I was the 
last person in the line.   British politeness and queueing behavior just 
won't cut it at the VU airports or in CQWW.

Same thing happened to me leaving Tel Aviv airport.  I was there 3 hours
before departure time, finally boarded the 'plane with literally seconds
to spare.  And then they stuck me in the smoking section, and some large
guy blew cigarette smoke over me for several hours.

Derek "born to S&P" AA5BT, G3NMX
oo7 at astro.as.utexas.edu

>From Larry Crim <wz4f at iquest.com>  Sat Jul 22 04:07:54 1995
From: Larry Crim <wz4f at iquest.com> (Larry Crim)
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 1995 22:07:54 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: QRL?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.950721220444.5302A-100000 at vespucci.iquest.com>




If, as K3ZO says, that "QRL?" wasn't asked years ago, why is it a Q-signal?


Larry
wz4f at iquest.com

>From Matthew S. Trott" <0007288678 at mcimail.com  Sat Jul 22 07:45:00 1995
From: Matthew S. Trott" <0007288678 at mcimail.com (Matthew S. Trott)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 95 01:45 EST
Subject: Cal QSO party adrs
Message-ID: <31950722064513/0007288678PJ3EM at MCIMAIL.COM>



      

     >We have mailed all wine bottles, T-shirts, plaques, and certificates

     >for the last running of the California QSO Party. 

Uh Oh, appears as if it finally fell into the ocean.


>From nizw at xs4all.nl (Mark van Wijk)  Sat Jul 22 08:51:30 1995
From: nizw at xs4all.nl (Mark van Wijk) (Mark van Wijk)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:51:30 +0200
Subject: "QRL & Stuff+ NEW SUBJECT
Message-ID: <199507220751.AA26724 at xs1.xs4all.nl>

OK SIGN ME ON FOR THE CONTRA"S !!

Come on guys! What is this ?? Kindergarten ??
We're talking about the major contests here, and if you prefer to see your
call in the TOP-10 list you'll have to put more effort in it . Be MORE
COMPETETIVE!
Haven't you state-side-fellows ever been in competition?? Never been in
sporting contests, nor even played chess ever ??
Perhaps you guys should consider some post-contest psychic help, if crying
in mommy's lap (because that naughty big-guy took you freq. without asking
QRL?) won't help.  Or better, take it to OPRAH........!
Winning involves more than a big setup, it takes lots and lots of
experience. Visit some of the big guns, ask them abt it, gain experience by
experimenting in other contests. Be smart and shrude if neccessary, that
doesn't mean to be rude and loud repeating CQ-Contest only, because that
would definitely keep your rate down. The "better" competitors know what I
mean, and here come's another for the pro's; we certainly see differences
between contesters and "contesters" here depending upon there comment;  Who
the heck is going to sign  CQ TEST CQ TEST DE <CALL>  <CALL>  <CALL> TEST
PSE K   ?????         (he had to look that up in a book I bet)

We cannot repeat enough that THE most important thing is LISTENING and again
LISTENING.

Regarding filters; don't start abt 250 HZ filters or stacked 500 's , 'cause
the first won't let you hear the crowd and the second gives you a headache
on some rigs (the steep slope of them makes it sound such "agressive") after
many hours.

ZERO BEAT ,.... what zero beat??? Do not forget not everybody has a
"programmable sidetone-frequency knob" on their rig. Some of us have "older"
gear or even home brew stuff; look at Vlad from eastern EU, and he usually
has a high score!

Now suppose that you are restricted to a "cute-little-set-up" with 100 W
only like myself and you start the contest, you're not going to work your
way through the first 30-50 Khz of each contest band are you? Leave the
K1AR's KC1XX's etc. for what they are, they will be begging for you the last
half day of the contest. Take into account the propagation  by the way!
Now look in the upper regions of the band, don't forget either that lots of
hams have a restricted use of the bands. I find myself during good
propagation on 10 usually between 28080 and 28150 where there are lots of
novices from the USA and many "little guys" from all around who escaped from
the tremendous crowd at the lower ends.

Regarding QRL?  etc. 
What do I do when maintaining "my" frequency and finding that this
particular weak signal interfering is getting louder because the propagation
in his direction is getting better ?? Do I sign QRL! QSY etc. while he might
have been there before me? NO, I keep going. Since he's serving his audience
on a part of the globe I cannot hear and I'm having my own little crowd to
run we can MANAGE CONTESTING BOTH ON THE SAME FREQUENCY. Since we hear each
other, we usually exchange reports, sign suc6 and continue! I know his
sidetone sound and his way of handling, so as long as he doesn't get too
loud we can both keep using the frequency. In fact here I'm sharing a freq.
with another contester with succes. And YES this demands some concentration
on listening from both of us, but that's "all in the game".


Being restricted here with little setups and 100W only doesn't mean I have
less fun in contesting. I certainly have a different strategy since I can
only maintain a frequency for a max. of 20 min usually. The succes is to
"search and pounch" your way through the band and stop whenever there's a
"gap" to start runnning. 

Thanks for those signing "QRL?" 'cause that indeed triggers a "CQ TEST...".


One last remark and perhaps NEW SUBJECT on CONTESTING:

********************************************************************************
********************************************************************************

WHAT CAN WE DO TO ATTRACT MORE  (YOUNGER) PARTICIPANTS ?


Mr. X from $#@-land  decides after coffee to " give some points in the contest".
He has a little setup (dipole/vertical+100Watt), lives in a crowded city and
knows that there's some new DX for him during a contest. Don't forget that
guys like him make the difference in a score of the serious competitors. So
how do we attract those in the future ??
****************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
********


Greetings from a country which did win CQ-WW-160-CW in multi-single a few years
ago with a FT-101ZD + home made preselectfilter!  A big setup is not enough!
Train your ears!
Keep up that rate Frank !

VY '73  Mark van Wijk , PA3FCD ...-.-

nizw at xs4all.nl


>From nizw at xs4all.nl (Mark van Wijk)  Sat Jul 22 08:52:52 1995
From: nizw at xs4all.nl (Mark van Wijk) (Mark van Wijk)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:52:52 +0200
Subject: "QRL & Stuff+ NEW SUBJECT
Message-ID: <199507220752.AA26827 at xs1.xs4all.nl>

>To: syam at Glue.umd.edu
>From: nizw at xs4all.nl (Mark van Wijk)
>Subject: Re: "QRL & Stuff+ NEW SUBJECT
>Cc: cq-contest at tgv.com
>Bcc: 
>X-Attachments: 
>
>OK SIGN ME ON FOR THE CONTRA"S !!
>
>Come on guys! What is this ?? Kindergarten ??
>We're talking about the major contests here, and if you prefer to see your
call in the TOP-10 list you'll have to put more effort in it . Be MORE
COMPETETIVE!
>Haven't you state-side-fellows ever been in competition?? Never been in
sporting contests, nor even played chess ever ??
>Perhaps you guys should consider some post-contest psychic help, if crying
in mommy's lap (because that naughty big-guy took you freq. without asking
QRL?) won't help.  Or better, take it to OPRAH........!
>Winning involves more than a big setup, it takes lots and lots of
experience. Visit some of the big guns, ask them abt it, gain experience by
experimenting in other contests. Be smart and shrude if neccessary, that
doesn't mean to be rude and loud repeating CQ-Contest only, because that
would definitely keep your rate down. The "better" competitors know what I
mean, and here come's another for the pro's; we certainly see differences
between contesters and "contesters" here depending upon there comment;  Who
the heck is going to sign  CQ TEST CQ TEST DE <CALL>  <CALL>  <CALL> TEST
PSE K   ?????         (he had to look that up in a book I bet)
>
>We cannot repeat enough that THE most important thing is LISTENING and
again LISTENING.
>
>Regarding filters; don't start abt 250 HZ filters or stacked 500 's ,
'cause the first won't let you hear the crowd and the second gives you a
headache on some rigs (the steep slope of them makes it sound such
"agressive") after many hours.
>
>ZERO BEAT ,.... what zero beat??? Do not forget not everybody has a
"programmable sidetone-frequency knob" on their rig. Some of us have "older"
gear or even home brew stuff; look at Vlad from eastern EU, and he usually
has a high score!
>
>Now suppose that you are restricted to a "cute-little-set-up" with 100 W
only like myself and you start the contest, you're not going to work your
way through the first 30-50 Khz of each contest band are you? Leave the
K1AR's KC1XX's etc. for what they are, they will be begging for you the last
half day of the contest. Take into account the propagation  by the way!
>Now look in the upper regions of the band, don't forget either that lots of
hams have a restricted use of the bands. I find myself during good
propagation on 10 usually between 28080 and 28150 where there are lots of
novices from the USA and many "little guys" from all around who escaped from
the tremendous crowd at the lower ends.
>
>Regarding QRL?  etc. 
>What do I do when maintaining "my" frequency and finding that this
particular weak signal interfering is getting louder because the propagation
in his direction is getting better ?? Do I sign QRL! QSY etc. while he might
have been there before me? NO, I keep going. Since he's serving his audience
on a part of the globe I cannot hear and I'm having my own little crowd to
run we can MANAGE CONTESTING BOTH ON THE SAME FREQUENCY. Since we hear each
other, we usually exchange reports, sign suc6 and continue! I know his
sidetone sound and his way of handling, so as long as he doesn't get too
loud we can both keep using the frequency. In fact here I'm sharing a freq.
with another contester with succes. And YES this demands some concentration
on listening from both of us, but that's "all in the game".
>
>
>Being restricted here with little setups and 100W only doesn't mean I have
less fun in contesting. I certainly have a different strategy since I can
only maintain a frequency for a max. of 20 min usually. The succes is to
"search and pounch" your way through the band and stop whenever there's a
"gap" to start runnning. 
>
>Thanks for those signing "QRL?" 'cause that indeed triggers a "CQ TEST...".
>
>
>One last remark and perhaps NEW SUBJECT on CONTESTING:
>
>***************************************************************************
*****
>***************************************************************************
*****
>
>WHAT CAN WE DO TO ATTRACT MORE  (YOUNGER) PARTICIPANTS ?
>
>
>Mr. X from $#@-land  decides after coffee to " give some points in the
contest".
>He has a little setup (dipole/vertical+100Watt), lives in a crowded city
and knows that there's some new DX for him during a contest. Don't forget
that guys like him make the difference in a score of the serious
competitors. So how do we attract those in the future ??
>***************************************************************************
****************************************************************************
*********
>
>
>Greetings from a country which did win CQ-WW-160-CW in multi-single a few years
>ago with a FT-101ZD + home made preselectfilter!  A big setup is not
enough! Train your ears!
>Keep up that rate Frank !
>
>VY '73  Mark van Wijk , PA3FCD ...-.-
>
>nizw at xs4all.nl
>


>From patd at eskimo.com (Patrick Dayshaw)  Sat Jul 22 02:06:20 1995
From: patd at eskimo.com (Patrick Dayshaw) (Patrick Dayshaw)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 02:06:20 +0100
Subject: "QRL"? Apologies
Message-ID: <199507220906.CAA17769 at mail.eskimo.com>

Well, other than live national TV I'm not sure I could have found a venue in
which I could more completely embarrass myself in front of such a large
audience so quickly.  Several apologies are in order.

Apology #1 to Fred Luan, K3ZO

In a totally emotional response to a question of operating technique, I
unwittingly used a metaphor that was grossly inappropriate.  My use of a
metaphor involving guns towards Fred, K3ZO, once the victim of a brutal gun
related assault was unforunate.  I had no knowledge of this event.  My
response was not based on intellect but rather on an immature and gut level
response to his original "QRL?" posting.  Fred, I am indeed sorry for the
content and tone of my comments aimed at you.

I then proceeded to make matters worse....

Apology #2 to Peter Reed, G4BVH

In my fit of juvenile anger I managed to further complicate the event by
transposing Peter's name with Fred's.  All Peter did was post his comments
about Fred's position.  I selected Peter's post to capture the portion of
Fred's position that I wanted to respond to and managed to screw-up yet
again.  Peter, thank you for your polite response via direct e-mail... I'm
sorry.

There is no excuse for such an emotional outburst on a relatively benign
question of operating technique as the use of QRL? in the contest arena.  In
retrospect, I guess I am responding to what is probably the last vestige of
youthful idealism as I approach 50 years old.  (Yes, a 50 year old did this
not a 15 year old.)

While Fred's involvement with Ham Radio nearly cost him his life, I credit
it for saving mine.  As a poor kid growing up in central Los Angeles, it was
the attention and interest of a blind ham who got me started in this great
hobby.  Ham Radio, opened a world to me that directly and indirectly changed
the course of my life.  The activity, focus, and diversion it provided, kept
me from a course that led to the figurative and literal end of life for many
of my friends.  It ultimately led me to a career in electronics that serves
me well to this day.  It has always been near and dear to my heart.  My
perception of the creeping rise in hostility in the hobby, (of which I
further contributed to with my post), was the catalyst for my response.

I do believe that one can be a successful DXer and Contester and still be a
gentleman about it.  My personal Contesting/DX hero has always been Gus
Browning, W4KFC who's operating expertise and gentlemanly ways are
legendary.  Gus was no wimp!  I certainly did not emulate W4KFC's approach
in my post.  I sincerely apologize to one and all.

73 es Good Contesting/DX



Patrick,   WA7VNI........    patd at eskimo.com


>From De Syam <syam at Glue.umd.edu>  Sat Jul 22 14:28:22 1995
From: De Syam <syam at Glue.umd.edu> (De Syam)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 09:28:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: "Is this frequency in use"
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950722091519.605A-100000 at mocha.eng.umd.edu>

On Fri, 21 Jul 1995, Charles Fulp wrote:

 and with his practice of using wide filters, I suspect I
> am the more likely culprit. 

I never once remember you bothering me, Chas.  The only times I hear you 
are when I am tuning across the band.

But all of the comments about this subject have helped me synthesize what 
I really don't like about the "QRL?" procedure.  The fellow who asks 
"QRL?" generally feels that if he asks "QRL?" and gets no response, he 
automatically assumes "rights" to the frequency even if it is obvious 
that the frequency really was in use.  Is this, the new "kinder, gentler" 
ethic that has been preached at me for the past several days, really 
better than what preceeded it?

                                           Very 73,

                                           Fred Laun, K3ZO



    



>From ronklein at ix.netcom.com (Ron Klein)  Sat Jul 22 14:31:14 1995
From: ronklein at ix.netcom.com (Ron Klein) (Ron Klein)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 06:31:14 -0700
Subject: max lengths for RS232 cable.
Message-ID: <199507221331.GAA26030 at ix2.ix.netcom.com>

I have been watching this discussion and can no longer bite my tongue :)

For some reason, my experience is that there is an incredible collection 
of "old wive's tales" on this subject. I have some professional 
experience in this area, and fixed lengths are not defined by the RS232 
standard. What is defined is the classical electrical interface 
parameters - i.e. voltage levels, output and input resistance and 
capacitance, etc. The 50 ft. "rule" must be one of the most universally 
misunderstood things I have seen in the industry.

I am personally familiar with commercial installations in extremely 
critical government communications facilities where RS232 type 
interfaces are running using over 100 feet of cable. These have been 
running for at least 10 years. Furthermore, in one case in that 
installation, I personally extended that length to over 250 feet as part 
of a carefully controlled troubleshooting sequence my team of technical 
people went through to demonstrate to that critical government user that 
a problem they had was NOT related to their previously installed cabling 
and the length thereof.

The key to proper performance of any such interface is that the basic 
engineering needs to be done which considers interface impedances, cable 
characteristics, proper grounding and shielding, driver and receiver 
characteristics, voltage levels, RFI environment, etc.

If you want to throw something together without doing this, 50 feet 
"may" be a reasonable rule of thumb. BUT, if you want to be sure, you'd 
better ENGINEER IT! And cable is not cable, is not cable... drivers are 
not the same, and receivers are not the same, etc....

73,

-- 
Ron Klein - W0OSK
-----------------
ronklein at ix.netcom.com




>From Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org  Sat Jul 22 15:16:09 1995
From: Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org (Rich L. Boyd)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 10:16:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: QRL
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.950722101350.3749B-100000 at cap1.capaccess.org>



I agree with K3ZO.  I feel when I'm tuning I can tell if a frequency is 
in use just by listening to it.  Calling CQ is a more expeditious way to 
try to start a run and results in "The frequency is in use, please QSY" 
if it in fact turns out to be occupied already, just like a QRL would.  
Many QRLers don't just ask once, they ask once, wait 10 seconds, ask 
again, wait 10 seconds, etc. and over the course of a contest that takes 
a lot of time you could be CQing.  

So if I hear an open frequency and start CQing and someone soon 
thereafter tells me they're using it, I leave without complaint.

Rich Boyd KE3Q


>From Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org  Sat Jul 22 16:10:23 1995
From: Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org (Rich L. Boyd)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:10:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: "Is the frequency in use?" or "QRL?"
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.950722110527.3749E-100000 at cap1.capaccess.org>


Another thought on QRL:  it reminds me of the local repeater where it's 
common practice (but not by me) to make a call, N3XXX, this is N3ZZZ.  
They repeat this a couple times at intervals, culminating with "Nothing 
heard, N3ZZZ."  I am tempted (and I successfully resist) to say "Yeah, I 
didn't hear anything either."

Related to QRL, I think I can recognize a frequency that is "not in use" 
when I hear it.  My CQs are very short anyway, and the time taken away 
from the frequency is comparable to a QRL? and answer.  If skip is such 
that I don't hear the "using" station, he wouldn't likely hear my QRL? 
either.  If one way or another I didn't hear anyone using it, I start 
CQing (with short CQs, lots of pauses -- opportunities to tell me they 
were already here) and if it becomes clear that someone else was already 
here I go away.

And by the way, there are many times when the shoe is on the other foot, 
I've been CQing on a frequency for a few hours...many people stop by to 
ask "QRL?" and I say "Yes, thank you," etc. and others where guys start 
CQing incessantly and WON't leave!

Rich Boyd KE3Q


>From George Cook <george at epix.net>  Sat Jul 22 16:17:02 1995
From: George Cook <george at epix.net> (George Cook)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:17:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: QRL Man we need a contest BAD!!
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950722111357.22318B-100000 at grape.epix.net>


I read all the notes and have decided that this entire crew needs a BIG 
BIG contest right now!

Lessee ARRL got 2 biggies
CQ got 2 Biggies
maybe 73 magazine could sponser the Summer doldrums International Contest

Hmm CQ SDIC CQ SDIC de AA3JU  QRZ?


*************************************************
* George Cook   AA3JU  Bangor, PA  FN21         *
* george at peach.epix.net  AA3JU at N3IQD.EPA.USA.NA *
* If you're not FRC remember:...............    *
* .......There's no shame in being 2nd best!    *
*************************************************


>From Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org  Sat Jul 22 16:39:32 1995
From: Rich L. Boyd" <rlboyd at CapAccess.org (Rich L. Boyd)
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 11:39:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: "Is the frequency in use?" or "QRL?"
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.950722113540.17748D-100000 at cap1.capaccess.org>


If someone CQs on a frequency that turns out to be busy, thus proving 
they didn't listen first, doesn't QRL do the same thing?  If they ask 
"QRL?" and you have to say "Yes," and assuming they heard you say "yes," 
doesn't that prove they didn't listen first?

Supporting Fred's "crutch" argument, QRL should NOT be used without 
listening first.  Some people may be just tossing out the QRL, feeling 
it's the gentlemanly way to find a clear frequency, and frees them of any 
need to listen first before asking "QRL?"

So, possible frequencies should be prescreened by the operator by 
listening some period of time, be it five seconds, 10 seconds, 20 
seconds, to determine if it is at least "possibly clear," before either 
calling QRL? or CQ.  Perhaps QRLers are more likely to listen less or not 
at all.  My view is QRL? or a short, snappy CQ, after listening to 
determine that the frequency is possibly or likely clear, accomplish the 
same thing.  If so, why should QRL? be favored over CQ?

Rich Boyd KE3Q