WRTC rates analysis
AE6Y at aol.com
AE6Y at aol.com
Mon Aug 12 02:46:28 EDT 1996
A few weeks ago, I mentioned the available of the wrtc logs as a DX4WIN
log. I've now had a chance to explore it a little bit, and recommend the
exercise to anyone interested in the wrtc results and relative analysis of
the operations of the various stations.
The log for all 52 stations is in one large log file which can be opened
all at once. You can sort the entire file by date, callsign, wrtc station,
etc. Each station is a separate "group" of entries within the log. In
version 1.07, you can "select" any one group (or more--up to the entire log)
and have the program demonstrate the hourly band/mode rates for that
selection. It's fascinating to see how they compare. Also interesting to
select all the stations and derive a total rate sheet for them all combined.
You can download the log itself as well as version 1.07 of DX4WIN from
their web site, http://www.erols.com/pvander.
disclaimer: I have no commercial relationship with DX4WIN, but do think
it's a great program.
73, andy, ae6y at aol.com
>From mtope at iu.net (Michael Tope) Mon Aug 12 07:33:06 1996
From: mtope at iu.net (Michael Tope) (Michael Tope)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 02:33:06 -0400
Subject: Summary: Tower Help (long)
Message-ID: <199608120633.CAA18471 at bb.iu.net>
Thanks to all who replied to my query on pouring the Rohn 25G Base. The
information was very helpful. If all goes well, I should be pouring concrete
in a week or so.=20
In summary, there seemed to be a general consensus about using a layer of
gravel for drainage. This is in keeping with Rohn's specifications. I was
able to purchase a 1/4 cubic yard of 3/4" gravel at the local concrete plant
for wopping $6 - self serve shovel till you drop. This should be more than
enough to provide a six to eight inch drain field for the tower legs. One
respondent recommended reinforcing the base with rebar. Just to be
conservative, I purchased a 20' piece 5/8" diameter rebar (cost $4). I have
cut this into 8 pieces (4 - 40" & 4 - 18") which I will use to fashion a
cage of sorts - the 40" pieces will be placed vertically in a square array,
and the 18" pieces will form two "X"s which will pass thru the tower section
horizontally - one near the bottom of the pier and the other nearer the top.
This might be overkill, but the rebar was relatively cheap so I figured what
the heck.
To limit corrosion, I used fibered roofing tar to coat the legs of the
bottom section near the bottom end and =B112" from the point where the legs
will come through the top of the pier.
As far as forms for the concrete, there seems to be some difference of
opinion, but I suspect this has to do with variation in soil types among
those whoe responded. I decided to compromise by forming 10" below ground
and a 2X4's width above. I built a frame out 2X4's one edge with the ends
extended to hang on the mouth of the hole. The inside perimeter of the frame
is lined with 5/8" thick plywood which is flush with the top of the frame
and extends about 8 to 10" below the bottom of the frame. My girlfriend is
betting that this won't be sufficient given the sandy soil here, but I won't
know for sure until I actually break ground. If need be I will extend the=
form.=20
In terms of concrete it looks like I will be taking the easy way out - pay
the man and have it delivered. Cost including setup should be $100 - $150.
Oh, one last question before I go for broke. Can any give me advice on
rustproofing old tower sections. Of the three sections I have here the one I
selected for the base is pretty much rust free. The other two are starting
to rust. I was wondering what the wisdom was on cold galvanizing spray
paint. I was going to clean up the legs with a wire brush wheel and
sandpaper and then give them a few coats of the Zinc paint. Any other
suggestions or comments on this?
Thanks again to all who replied!=20
73 de Mike, AD4VH
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
On July 11, 1996 I wrote:
Hurricane Bertha willing (she appears to be!), I will be breaking ground on
my first tower in the coming days. Not wanting to bite off more than I can
chew, I will be putting up a rather small one, 26' of Rohn 25G (3 sections
with 4' under the ground). This will serve as a home for VHF antennas, and
my old Cushcraft A3 until such time that I am ready for some real metal.=20
Anyway, my question is rather simple - should I use a wooden form for the
base? And if so, should I remove the form immediately after pouring the=
cement?
Thanks in Advance!
Mike, AD4VH
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
And here are the replies:
Jim, K1ZX wrote:
use a plywood form for the sides and don't worry about leaving it when your
down....otherwise you will be disappointed in the results of the effort of
removing the thin plywood....and you will have to use a form release agent=
on
the plywood, etc.... once you construct the form be sure to backfill it as
the concrete will surely bust it out otherwise! its heavy shit!
don't forget to coat the tower legs with some asphalt based goo, rust out
frequently occurs where the legs meet the concrete - and you ARE making sure
they are resting on pea/small gravel so all that FL condensation inside the
legs can drain - not collect at the bottoms of, your legs!
gl, dude
zx
Gary, K7FR wrote:
Mike,
If your ground will allow the hole to stay open until you pour only use wood
to form the top collar for beauty sake.
73 gary k7fr
Steve, N0YVY wrote:
Burying a section of tower in concrete is not the Rohn recommended method.=
=20
Having said that, here is how I go about it.
Asuming you don't have cave in problems and that 42 inches is below frost=20
line in your area, I would dig a 2 foot square hole 4 feet deep. It is=20
better to have the concrete bearing against virgin undisturbed soil, than=20
forming it down and then back filling. Keep the sides straight down. Make=20
sure you don't get lazy and let them slope into the bottom.
Make a frame for the top out of 2x4's anywhere from 18 to 24 inches square.=
=20
Have the form extend out beyond the hole for support. Then put 6 inches of=
=20
gravel or small loose stone in the bottom of the hole and wiggle the bottom=
=20
section down into this gravel. You want to keep the bottom of the legs open=
=20
so they drain. The 2x4's will keep the top of the cement above ground=20
level. If you are going to house bracket this tower, something I highly=20
recommend, then assemble the tower all the way to the house bracket (using=
=20
ladders and the roof, not the tower, for support) and complete the house=20
bracket installation and fasten the tower to it.
Coat the tower with roofing tar from a point 6" above where the top surface=
=20
of the concrete will be, to a point 12" below the top surface of the=20
concrete. Roofing tar has fiber in it so it will give a good coating so you=
=20
won't get surface corrosion at the top of the concrete. Corrosion at this=20
point is really the reason for using the Rohn concrete tower legs - they=20
are heavier and provide more corrosion allowance than the thin tower legs.=
=20
I have seen lots of these types of installs that completely rust off at the=
=20
top of the concrete and are hanging by the house bracket.
You are better off to order the concrete form a concrete plant and have it=
=20
delivered. There are different grades of concrete. Typical foundation grade=
=20
is a 2500 to 3000 psi mix. I use 4000 psi concrete it is sometimes called a=
=20
7 bag mix (7 bags of cement per cubic yard). Make sure they know that this=
=20
is for outside exposure and ask for the "air entrainment" type of mix. It=20
has a special additive that keeps tiny air bubbles in the cement. You won't=
=20
be able to see them. The air entrained concrete resists cracking and=20
surface spalling better in freeze/thaw environments.
Make sure tower is staight up. Pour in about a foot of concrete. Make sure=
=20
tower is staight again. Pour in the next foot of concrete and make sure the=
=20
tower is straight up. Pour in the rest of the concrete. Finish the concrete=
=20
inside the form to have a slight (1/4" to 1/2" dome or crown so water will=
=20
run off. Make sure tower is straight up one last time.
After concrete sets up for about 6 to 8 hours, take an old rug or a couple=
=20
of layers of rags and lay on the concrete. Wet this down two to four times=
=20
a day to help the concrete cure. Do this for a week before you set up the=20
rest of the tower.
Good luck
de n0yvy steve
Hank, KI7YO wrote:
Mike:
=20
If you choose to use a wooden form wait 3 days for the concrete to=20
cure before you strip it off. It is not always necessary to use a form=
=20
in the earth. Forms are used so that only the absolute minimum amout=20
of concrete is used and also to allow for more controlled geometric
spacing in design. Make sure you use rebar and space it 3" minimum=20
from all potential ground contact surfaces. Also make sure the rebar
intersect the embedded tower section so as to lock it in the concrete
base. Hope this helps if you have questions contact me at the email=20
address. 73 KI7YO/Hank P.E., ARRL V.C.E.
=20
=20
Hank Lonberg, KI7YO/ hlonberg at HGI-PDX.usa.com
Steve, AA3NM wrote:
Nice choice Mike... I just finished the first 34' of my 40' Rohn 25. =20
Here is what I did. (I guess I'll hear about all my sins now)
1) Made a form for the top 6" that is to be above ground.
(A nice touch is include a beveled edge inside the form so the final ROCK
will look nice sitting above ground)
2) Dug the hole 4'+ deep by 18' square.
3) Positioned the frame with the top level and the side square to the
house (I am house bracketed at 14' and 24').
4) Filled the bottom of the hole with enough gravel to bring the mating
part of the short base above concrete (at least 8" of gravel to allow for
drainage from within the legs)
5) positioned and plummed the short base ATTACHED to the first section.
6) Poured the concrete (about 6 cubic feet 10 1/2 bags)
7) CROWN THE TOP!!! (for drainage)
8) after about 8-12 hours removed the form (concrete is still green but
quite firm... you know... SIGNING TIME)
Don't forget to water your concrete a few times a day for the first few
days to promote CURING not drying and allow a few days (a week is better)
to develop strength.
Good luck,
Steve AA3NM
Gaithersburg, MD
Tony, K1KP wrote:
Use form? - yes. otherwise moisture needed for curing is drawn out of=20
concrete into surrounding soil.
Remove form? - yes, but wait 3 days after pouring for the initial cure.
Be sure to prevent any concrete from spilling down behind form, which
would make it difficult to remove. Don't leave any wood in the hole,
which will rot, leaving a void...
-Tony, K1KP, fisher at hp-and2.an.hp.com
Charles, K4VUD wrote:
Mike, I just poured two bases for towers:
1. Use undisturbed soil -- that is, dig only the size hole you will fill
with concrete, do not dig a bigger one and then set a form down in that.
Pour the whole hole full, no forms below ground level.
2. Wait two days to remove the ABOVE ground level forms.
Gud luck. 73, K4VUD
K2RK wrote:
Do the form so the cement is a "2x4" out of the ground and
crown or "round" the top for water run-off. Follow Rohn's
notes of gravel in botton of hole, with legs extending below
the cement. I went to K-Mart and got spray cans of car
under-coat for the legs.
GL - K2RK
K9UWA wrote:
Mike there in FLorida you might put 4 foot in the ground but don't=20
try that up here in the Frozen North....anyplace that has freezing=20
temps...the 4 foot will fill up with water to ground level and then=20
sheer off when it freezes.....assume your message was in regards to=20
wood concrete form??? Pull it off the day after you pour it...should=20
be solid enough by then....good luck de JOHN K9UWA
John K9UWA
Jim, KC8MK wrote:
You should only use a wooden form for the 6 inches or so of concrete
that will be exposed above ground. It should be ok to remove that in a
couple of days. The longer you keep the concrete damp and cool, the
harder it will ultimately cure. Either way, probably not a problem in
your case. Fill whatever hole you dig completely with concrete, do not
use forms below the surface. Make sure that there is about 3" of small
gravel or sand in the bottom of the hole, that the tower legs will sink
into, so if any water gets in the legs, it will drain out through the=
bottom.
While freezing is not a problem there, the tower legs will rust from the
inside out.
ESAD
KC8MK
Joe, N8AAT wrote:
Mike,
I'd suggest skipping the form. You want as tight a fit between the dirt and
the concrete as you can get. Dig the hole, plant the section, and pour the
concrete.
Joe, N8AAT
>From n5ia at juno.com (Milt Jensen) Mon Aug 12 13:51:10 1996
From: n5ia at juno.com (Milt Jensen) (Milt Jensen)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 08:51:10 EDT
Subject: N5IA: Re: Pse QSL ???
Message-ID: <19960812.124749.6518.1.N5IA at juno.com>
From: N5IA
To: aa1jm at SNET.Net
Subject: Re: | X | Pse QSL ???
Date: Sun, 11 Aug 1996 03:50:17 PST
Message-ID: <19960811.034713.6966.1.N5IA at juno.com>
References: <9608102346.AA70888 at ct1.snet.net>
To Brian and Dave, and any others that have the understanding that the
QSL card is and integral part of the Amateur Radio hobby.
I have noticed the same change in the QSLing process that you
have, and a bit more. I personally do not hunt cards, but do reply to
all received.
NM seems to be fairly rare on all bands, and I receive many
requests for confirmation of QSOs with my station. Also, my county is
one of the more rare ones in the state and many requests for confirmation
of contact with Hidalgo County are received.
I thank the many stations who do send SASEs as this certainly
relieves me of much time and effort, as well as the money for postage.
But I must say the same as Brian, "The SASEs get answered before the post
cards."
Most operators no longer take the time to note on their cards the
list of equipment, including antenna systems, that is in use at their
station. Maybe that is no longer a big deal for most stations, but for
me it has always been and will continue to be one of the most important
parts of the QSL information.
Most operators no longer comment regarding the QSO or the
circumstances under which the QSO was made. Many operators don't take
the time to personally sign their name and station call sign to the QSL
card. This, for me, removes much of the personal touch associated with
QSLing. When I review cards as they arrive, I will always reply more
quickly to those cards that have made it a written, personal follow up to
a QSO or contact.
Perhaps we three are a minority. I do not know, but I will
continue to respond in the manner noted above. I hope that this dialouge
will inspire some others out there to make their QSLing a more personal
and thoughtful part of their operation. Think about the other operator's
situation, both when sending and receiving QSL cards. 73 de
---Milt Jensen @ ARS N5IA---
---Virden, NM Route Box 176---
---Duncan, AZ -- 85534---
---H: (505) 358-2105 W: (520) 359-2503---
---Reply to n5ia at juno.com---
>From gswanson at arrl.org (Swanson, Glenn, KB1GW) Mon Aug 12 15:34:00 1996
From: gswanson at arrl.org (Swanson, Glenn, KB1GW) (Swanson, Glenn, KB1GW)
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 10:34:00 -0400
Subject: Bonehead mistake
Message-ID: <m0upxA6-000f51C at mgate.arrl.org>
"Please accept my apologies for the multiple posts regarding Rohn and
the Omni VI and whatever else shows up from yesterday. I initially got
an "Undeliverable message, try again later" from cq-contest, so I
tried again, ..."
Ditto my message re: the HAARP article (in Sept. '96 QST.)
SRI, KB1GW
----------
>From: steve.m.zettel
>To: cq-contest; towertalk; topband
>Subject: Bonehead mistake
>Date: Saturday, August 10, 1996 7:12AM
>
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>Date: Sat, 10 Aug 96 07:12:34 PST
>From: <steve.m.zettel at internet.nps.usace.army.mil>
>Reply-To: <steve.m.zettel at internet.nps.usace.army.mil>
>Message-ID: <9607108396.AA839683360 at internet.nps.usace.army.mil>
>To: cq-contest at TGV.COM, towertalk at contesting.com, topband at frontier.net
>Subject: Bonehead mistake
>----------------------------------------------------
> Please accept my apologies for the multiple posts regarding Rohn and
> the Omni VI and whatever else shows up from yesterday. I initially got
> an "Undeliverable message, try again later" from cq-contest, so I
> tried again, several times (from my home account, too, later), not
> stopping to think that I had several other lists as addressees, too.
>
> I know better, and feel badly about the waste of resources and
> annoyance this may have caused folks. Kind of like not realizing the
> memory keyer is running "CQ, CQ, CQ", and on the wrong VFO besides.
>
> Red-faced in Libby,
>
> Steve KJ7CH
>
>
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